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The Nazi's,the Muslim Brotherhood and Palestine

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
I see,you would like to cut them adrift and leave them to their fate whatever that may be,that would please Iran for one and of course Hizbollah.

There is this thing that I tend to live by, it's called Personal Responsibility.

If Israel wants to act like a "rogue nation" then they should be treated like one.

Also, what stake does the US have if Israel lives or dies as a Nation?

None.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
There is this thing that I tend to live by, it's called Personal Responsibility.

If Israel wants to act like a "rogue nation" then they should be treated like one.

Also, what stake does the US have if Israel lives or dies as a Nation?

None.

Opposition to all thats in the OP
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
You mean your questionable history lesson?

It all in the history books

Sorry, that is not a good enough reason to ignore what Israel does and has done.

But ok to ignore what Israels enemies do

We enacted the Invade and Replace stradegy on Saddam for less.

So say the US withdraws support,how would ythings develop
 
The Nazi-connections of Husseini are known, but what's the point of this? To prove that all Arabs are Nazis?

"England my..." you seem to think there are only two sides, black and white. However the truth is sometimes a bit more complex.

Nothing is gained by likening either side in the Palestine conflict to the Nazis. These comparisons are just wrong.

Anti-semitism is wrong and there is no excuse for it. However, the view that Islam is inherently anti-semitic is ahistorical and wrong. Political/racial anti-semitism in the Arabic world is an import from the West and recent. Religious antisemitism is found both in Islam and Christianity.

The Palestine problem started with the ottoman empire being on the wrong side of WWI. Arab Nationalism was encouraged by the British in order to fight the ottoman empire. The British however made promises to the zionist movement as well. It was clear from the beginning that there was no way to reconcile the contradictions of the Balfour delcaration (the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine without compromising the interests of the Arab Palestinians).

Both the zionist movement and the different Arab nationalist movements tried to find allies in the changing power politics before and after WWII. First between French and British interests, later between the two sides of the cold war. Obviously, the role of the Nazis in these geopolitical power games is very distasteful in hindsight - but there is a difference between having had contacts to Hitler before the war and holocaust denial today.

It is nonsense to compare Nasser to Husseini.

It was in my opinion one of the biggest mistakes of the West to portrait Naseer as the Arab Hitler. Which he certainly wasn't. Seeking a compromise with Nasser could have avoided a lot of the mess we are currently in - both for the West and Israel. Nasser's demands to Israel were not completely unreasonable (Terretorial questions that have meanwhile been resolved, and a solution to the Palesinian refuge problem, that everybody seems to have forgotten by now). Likening Nasser to Hitler was mere cold war propaganda of the 1950s and 1960s.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
The Nazi-connections of Husseini are known, but what's the point of this? To prove that all Arabs are Nazis?

First not all Arabs are Nazi's thats not the point,the point is the shared goal of iradicating the Jewish people.

"England my..." you seem to think there are only two sides, black and white. However the truth is sometimes a bit more complex.

Yes it is complex,if it was'nt we probably would'nt be talking about it now

Nothing is gained by likening either side in the Palestine conflict to the Nazis. These comparisons are just wrong.

How are they wrong? this isn't propaganda this is history,to understand how this conflict has got to where it is facts are important

Anti-semitism is wrong and there is no excuse for it. However, the view that Islam is inherently anti-semitic is ahistorical and wrong. Political/racial anti-semitism in the Arabic world is an import from the West and recent. Religious antisemitism is found both in Islam and Christianity.

Ah see thats where you have gone wrong,i never said Islam is anti-Semetic,Islam and Islamism are two different things.
As for anti-Semtism being an import from the West,anti-Semitism has been around forever and the West has indeed contributed to it ever since Christianity hit Europe but especially through Luther and Facism,however it is clear that Islamism has its own anti-Semetic literature and propaganda.

The Palestine problem started with the ottoman empire being on the wrong side of WWI. Arab Nationalism was encouraged by the British in order to fight the ottoman empire. The British however made promises to the zionist movement as well. It was clear from the beginning that there was no way to reconcile the contradictions of the Balfour delcaration (the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine without compromising the interests of the Arab Palestinians).

The Ottoman Empire chose its side it was'nt an accident,as for Britains part in the whole affair i am well aware of the blunders it made,the biggest one of course was giving Husseini amnesty and letting him return to Palestine when he should have been handed over to stand trial for war crimes in WW2.

Both the zionist movement and the different Arab nationalist movements tried to find allies in the changing power politics before and after WWII. First between French and British interests, later between the two sides of the cold war. Obviously, the role of the Nazis in these geopolitical power games is very distasteful in hindsight - but there is a difference between having had contacts to Hitler before the war and holocaust denial today.

A 26,000 strong SS Hanzar Division tells a different story,the Muslim Brotherhood were working for the Nazi's thats a fact,they did'nt just have contacts with the Nazi Party before the war they were allies during it.
Holocaust denial is an insult to all of us,there are many people who are still alive who witnessed the murder, what they must go through when they hear it i could'nt imagine.

It is nonsense to compare Nasser to Husseini.

Nasser was an MB member,he led the Political group Young Egypt who's slogan was "one folk,one Party,one leader" go figure.

It was in my opinion one of the biggest mistakes of the West to portrait Naseer as the Arab Hitler. Which he certainly wasn't. Seeking a compromise with Nasser could have avoided a lot of the mess we are currently in - both for the West and Israel. Nasser's demands to Israel were not completely unreasonable (Terretorial questions that have meanwhile been resolved, and a solution to the Palesinian refuge problem, that everybody seems to have forgotten by now). Likening Nasser to Hitler was mere cold war propaganda of the 1950s and 1960s.

Indeed he was a torch for Arabs eveywhere
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
It's an insult to our collective intelligence for Israel to pull this ****. I don't care what about what happened to you Sixty Years Ago. That gives you no right to do nigh the same thing to another minority. Theocracies are bad. Regardless of what faith they represent.
Pure cheap demagogy. there are no extermination camps in Palestinian territories, there are no millions of Palestinians gassed, the mere fact that Israelis and Palestinians have negotiated and negotiate the creation of a Palestinian state tells us much.
there is no systematic rounding up of Arabs in Israel. Arabs in Israel enjoy Arabic as an official language along Hebrew, they serve in the Parliament, and even served in sensitive positions such as ministers and ambassadors, Israel gave the right for Arab women to vote perhaps longer before all Arab nations, while there are still Arab nations who are struggling with this. you want to argue that there is discrimination go ahead. just like any minority is discriminated against in any part of the world. as for theocracy. Israel is no theocracy, it is officially a secular democracy, and by population is by far less religious than the US for example, with a study in the mid 90s pointing to over 30% of Israelis being atheists, and 37% together with agnostics, tell me, is anyong condemning these unbelievers to death for being apostates like in REAL theocracies? no! instead Israel recognizes gay marriage, and Tel Aviv is boasted as the gay capital of the middle east, hell I know, there's not much of a competition in the region.

Gah. Not to mention this thread was started by a post that is nothing more than an invoking Godwin. "RAWR, THEY WERE AT ONE POINT MAYBE KIND OF INFLUENCED BY NAZI GERMANY". Yeah. That's not an argument, that's shutting your eyes, covering your ears and yelling 'LA-LA-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU'.
Perhaps some other people, too, cover their ears, when there are programs such as these on Egyptian television:
MEMRI: Faraeen TV Discussion of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and Jewish Plot to Take Over the World

or when the television station claims that 150,000 or 30,000 Jews died in WWII, and they have in fact brought it on themselves:

MEMRI: Egyptian Researcher Sa'id Okasha Challenges Antisemitic Myths on Al-Faraeen TV

The fact that Mein Kampf, and the Protocols are best sellers is telling.
did anyone equate Islam with Nazism? No. but the connection between radicals and the 'less radical', and even leaders of nations, or the ordinary people on the street is there, and it was never historically covered up. no to mention that the Iranian leadership is openly busy with holocaust denying, and organizing holocaust denying conferences right for the world to see.

Here are our lovely Hezballah fighters (the same Hezballah that banned The Diary of Anne Frank as 'Zionist propaganda'):

hezbollah_salute.jpg
 
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Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
And now to get back ON topic.

The Turban and the Swastika is a documentary that was broadcast on Arte, French-German TV which also distributes its program in other places in the EU such as Belgium, Austria, the Netherlands and Switzerland and also reaches places outside Europe, such as Canada and Australia. the documentary includes an interview with Amina Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti's daughter, it explores the history of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem from his appointment by the British through the German-sponsored uprising in the late 1930's and to the close cooperation between the Mufti and the Nazis.

The Turban and the Swastika whole film on Vimeo
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Nope, but we make the bullets.
And? its pure American profit, large nations like the USA and Russia have been global arms providers. with the US selling both Israel and Arab nations state of the art military technology.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Hitler wanted the Jewish race exterminated.

Islam, to quote Iran, wants "The Jews pushed into the sea" meaning the elimination of Israel and the return of Israeli lands to it's 1940's Arab owners.

World of difference.

I wonder if the OP was a waste of time,Pan Islamic Nationalism wants the Jewish people gone,bfore Husseini their was no problem between Arab Muslims,Arab Christians Zoroastians or any other ians and the Jewish people.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
And? its pure American profit, large nations like the USA and Russia have been global arms providers. with the US selling both Israel and Arab nations state of the art military technology.


Do you not see an ethical dilemma with this?
 
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