If you would consider having an abortion (or consider wanting your wife/girlfriend to have one) why?

[justbehappy]

In the case of rape, it's not about morality. It's about whether I could bear the reminder. I will point out that it's highly unlikely at any rate. I use birth control regardless of my sexual activity, and even so, I'd take the morning after pill.


Certainly.

In the case of disability, it's rather complex, but the nutshell is that I couldn't bear to inflict such suffering on my child when I could prevent it. My religious beliefs come into play in that I believe the "soul" would go on to another, presumably better life.

You might ask why I wouldn't just give the child up for adoption, and the answer is that I believe abortion to be morally superior in disability cases. Mostly because it prevents unnecessary suffering for the child, but there are also social factors at play. As mentioned upthread, there's no shortage of unwanted children in the world. The wait lists for adoption are because people want perfectly healthy (usually white) newborns. An infant with a major disability would not be in such high demand, and that only leads to more suffering.

As for adoption with a rape case, it's much less clear. As I said to MSizer, the morality takes a backseat to my own emotional capacity. I honestly don't know if I could love a child of rape, and I think I would be at war with myself. If I didn't love it (maybe even if I did), the pregnancy itself would mostly likely be a 9-month extension of the violation, and I don't know that I could handle that. If I did love it, could I love it enough to raise it fairly? Because I know I couldn't handle an adoption. I'm not saying it's right, but it might be necessary, for me.

BTW, you're doing a great job keeping such a hot topic civil. Frubals.

I can understand your view on the first - The fact that the soul would be going to a healthy body
Also, I can agree that it would be hard. Would I personally end their life because of that, though? No. For one, one of my best friend's mother was raped, and she is the child that was conceived. She is an extremely happy and intelligent person, and she has a great future ahead of her. But also, that child is a part of me, no matter who else it belongs to, and I just feel I could not abandon it

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Maybe. I'm not convinced myself. Even if so, the collective decision to go together would be an appeal to emotion, not logic, which I think is a mistake.

Why a mistake? so you might prolong your life just a little bit longer, and when you crawl out of the basement you will now be a child murder, but alive. That takes a special person to be able to live with that. I think you are overreaching a bit with your logic.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

In other words Msizer, you are putting more value on human life, than moral decisions. Saving human lives does not always equal best moral decision. You disagree?

 

[justbehappy]

I still think you are screen/type righteous.

When death comes for you in such a fashion, things change. You realize life isn't as valuable as you thought, and the group would rather die together than kill the little baby. The group would stop you from killing the baby, and then they would all gladly die together.

Yeah there might be the oddball in the group, but that is the way it would happen.

I agree. This reminds me of a movie I recently saw. I can't recall the name but aliens came to earth and their job was to destroy the population because people had become to evil and were destroying the planet with their acts. Anyways, the message was that people change their ways in times of true chaos

 

[MSizer]

Why a mistake? so you might prolong your life just a little bit longer, and when you crawl out of the basement you will now be a child murder, but alive. That takes a special person to be able to live with that. I think you are overreaching a bit with your logic.

First of all it is not me who would willfully kill any child if I weren't in between a rock and a hard place imposed by somebody esle, and secondly, it would not be for my own sake that I would do it, it would be for the collective sake of the lives of the other people.

 

[MSizer]

In other words Msizer, you are putting more value on human life, than moral decisions.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Saving human lives does not always equal best moral decision. You disagree?

If you literally state that and nothing more, then yes, I disagree, but before people jump to conclusions, I might add that protecting concious beings from harm, which includes saving human lives in most circumstances, is my highest moral value.

 

[Storm]

I can understand your view on the first - The fact that the soul would be going to a healthy body

Thank you.

Also, I can agree that it would be hard. Would I personally end their life because of that, though? No. For one, one of my best friend's mother was raped, and she is the child that was conceived. She is an extremely happy and intelligent person, and she has a great future ahead of her. But also, that child is a part of me, no matter who else it belongs to, and I just feel I could not abandon it

Bear in mind, I'm not saying I would definitely get one, jsut that it's something I would struggle with. Though, if open adoption was a possibility, that might be the solution.

I'm going to get a bit personal here, I hope you don't mind.

I think experience is a crucial difference here. I've actually been raped (molested, actually), and I know first hand how traumatic it is. I know how I would suffer were it to happen again. What I don't know is whether I could be rational enough to accept my body being wholly taken over by that trauma long enough to put the child up for adoption.

Then there's the issue of adoption itself, assuming it was a closed one. I've had three miscarriages in my life, and one live birth. Much as I mourned my lost children, I know for a fact that my love for them wasn't even a shadow of my love for my beuatiful boy. It just doesn't compare, because he's real. He's not potential anymore, I'm not just loving my own hopes. A lost pregnancy is painful, but much less, I think, than parting with that little person forever. I don't know that I could do that, either.

All I know is that I'd be horribly torn over what to do.

However, after my initial explanatory post, the possibility of open adoption occured to me. I think, if I could stand the pregnancy itself, that's the option I would go for.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

IIf you literally state that and nothing more, then yes, I disagree, but before people jump to conclusions, I might add that protecting concious beings from harm, which includes saving human lives in most circumstances, is my highest moral value.

There is still time for you... I think you can find higher using just sound logic and reason.
Staying alive or keeping others alive is hardly the pinnacle of morals.

In fact the scenario you painted is beautiful for such a realization. Maybe we can discuss in a separate thread, as it is a bit off topic I suppose.

 

[MSizer]

There is still time for you... I think you can find higher using just sound logic and reason.
Staying alive or keeping others alive is hardly the pinnacle of morals.

In fact the scenario you painted is beautiful for such a realization. Maybe we can discuss in a separate thread, as it is a bit off topic I suppose.

Sure, although I should really get some work done today! (lol, sorta!)

But by all means, I'd be happy to engage.

M.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Sure, although I should really get some work done today! (lol, sorta!)

But by all means, I'd be happy to engage.

M.

I know what you mean I really don't need to be sitting here. I have so much work to do as well.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

OK Msizer here you go, when you get time. I may be gone for the rest of the day as well.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-fine-moral-delima-youve-got.html#post1915179

 

[AxisMundi]

It is your child, your offspring, a life from you - whatever you want to call it. Like I said in a previous post, there are programs that let pregnant women chose a family to give their child to. They can meet the family and learn about them, and there are many out there on waiting lists. A lot of there are couples that cannot have children themselves, and the sad thing is that women immediately turn to abortion before even considering options like these. Yes it is emotionally difficult, but that's no excuse to take the easy way out when there are other options that do involve ending a life. Considering adoption to me is the responsible thing to do, and if a woman is having an abortion because they do not want the "physical burden" of pregnancy, than that is completely irresponsible.

And the other hundereds of thousands of children already in the system (in private and g'ment orphanes, foster care, etc.) who will grow up in the system and then be kicked out into the world when they reach 18 years of age?

Sorry, but this whole adoption thing is merely a pie-in-the-sky distraction.

 

[dust1n]

I feel sorry for men who don't have a say in what the woman does. I'm glad to be a female in this regard.

In this particular field I'm a masculinist; men should have say in the fate of their own offspring. I don't think any legislation should permit a woman not to have an abortion because the father says so, but the man's intake, etc. should be considered in such a decision.

 

[Madhuri]

In this particular field I'm a masculinist; men should have say in the fate of their own offspring. I don't think any legislation should permit a woman not to have an abortion because the father says so, but the man's intake, etc. should be considered in such a decision.

Absolutely. I should mention that I was only referring to the father of the conceived child.

 

[justbehappy]

Thank you.


Bear in mind, I'm not saying I would definitely get one, jsut that it's something I would struggle with. Though, if open adoption was a possibility, that might be the solution.

I'm going to get a bit personal here, I hope you don't mind.

I think experience is a crucial difference here. I've actually been raped (molested, actually), and I know first hand how traumatic it is. I know how I would suffer were it to happen again. What I don't know is whether I could be rational enough to accept my body being wholly taken over by that trauma long enough to put the child up for adoption.

Then there's the issue of adoption itself, assuming it was a closed one. I've had three miscarriages in my life, and one live birth. Much as I mourned my lost children, I know for a fact that my love for them wasn't even a shadow of my love for my beuatiful boy. It just doesn't compare, because he's real. He's not potential anymore, I'm not just loving my own hopes. A lost pregnancy is painful, but much less, I think, than parting with that little person forever. I don't know that I could do that, either.

All I know is that I'd be horribly torn over what to do.

However, after my initial explanatory post, the possibility of open adoption occured to me. I think, if I could stand the pregnancy itself, that's the option I would go for.

Well if it ever comes down to that (though unlikely of course), l hope that you would chose that

 

[justbehappy]

And the other hundereds of thousands of children already in the system (in private and g'ment orphanes, foster care, etc.) who will grow up in the system and then be kicked out into the world when they reach 18 years of age?

Sorry, but this whole adoption thing is merely a pie-in-the-sky distraction.

Please read my previous posts. People want NEWBORN BABIES. In fact, there are even more couples on these waitings lists than there are mothers considering this kind of adoption (picking a family for their baby). That fact alone proves that people are simply turning to the easiest answer - abortion.

 

[AxisMundi]

Please read my previous posts. People want NEWBORN BABIES. In fact, there are even more couples on these waitings lists than there are mothers considering this kind of adoption (picking a family for their baby). That fact alone proves that people are simply turning to the easiest answer - abortion.

And the rest of the kids in the system are "collateral damage"? Waste?

I'm sorry, but I see some rather dispicable double standards in the current system.

 

[Storm]

That fact alone proves that people are simply turning to the easiest answer - abortion.

And you were doing so well at keeping things civil.

What makes you think abortion is easy?

 

[justbehappy]

And the rest of the kids in the system are "collateral damage"? Waste?

I was simply responding to the fact that you think just by putting your child up for adoption that it will become that

 

[justbehappy]

And you were doing so well at keeping things civil.

What makes you think abortion is easy?

I apologize because I don't mean to make a generalization here, but all of the women that I know that have had abortion have pretty much said it was the "easiest option."