Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Are you saying that traditional European culture made the teacher react this way?! I thought that Europeans respect freedom of speech, but I know I was wrong....They respect it only if it was used to harass Muslims!!
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A schoolgirl punished for a pro-Palestinian T-shirt in France!!
- Thread starter Sajdah
- Start date
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
So from your observation, you found out that Muslims are responsible for every evil thing happening in Europe?!
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Okay, but I still don't understand why have you posted things about "Radical Islam", "terrorists", and so on in this thread?!
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said this and don't believe it.
I think most European governments do a fine enough job themselves at being self destructive.
KatNotKathy
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's kinda what happens when poor immigrants move places and racist natives freak out, as is happening in Germany, and especially Austria and Switzerland. White flight isn't exclusively an American phenomenon.
Combine that with the fact that Germany has failed horribly when it comes to helping immigrants work their way into society, and you get ghettos. Property values are decreasing and crime is increasing not because they are Muslims or immigrants, but because they are poor. That's what poverty does, it increases crime rates.
It doesn't help that once this cycle has started people start assuming those problems are due to other factors, then work to perpetuate them.
kai
ragamuffin
OK and i know of areas just like that in a city near me but and its a big but is it Islam or the cultural attitudes of the immigrants? The area i speak of is predominantly Somali and Bangla-Deshi . Is it Islamic to not care for the grass? or to throw trash about? or commit crime?
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Then please, give me one reason which makes you participate in every thread about Muslims with the same posts about "Radical Islam"..... And always asking us to connect the dots....Are you trying to say that any atrocities commited against Muslims in particular is justified because there are some few number of Muslims commit atrocities too?! I know that your response will be "NO"......But honestly I'm trying to "connect the dots"......That's the only connection I can see!!!
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I think I am very clear on this in all my posts, but for you I'll simplify my position.
1. There is an element in Islam led by people - some of whom are organized and some of whom are independent - who see Islam as a political system as well as a set of religious beliefs.
2. Many of the followers of the more political leaders of Islam hate Western civilization and consider Westerners - and any opponent to their particular ideology - to be their enemies.
3. These more radical members of Islam make it difficult for the rest of the world - including their own Muslim family, friends, and neighbors - by insisting on participating in terrorist activities which, to this date in modern history (since 9-11) have carried out nearly 15,000 (YES, 15,000) deadly or injurious attacks on people who do not believe as they do. (Example: The latest attack as of this morning of 2/28/10 was in the Phillipines, where 28 people, including 12 women and children, were gunned down by Moro Islamists. Eleven people were killed.)
In fact, there are so many attacks worldwide by Islamist extremists that we hardly even pay attention to the various reports of violence anymore - they all just sort of blur together in the news. But I bet they make quite an impression on the thousands of victims every year.
4. If I were Muslim and lived in the conditions present in so many Islam-dominated societies, I would want to immigrate elsewhere too, so I certainly don't blame Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) taking advantage of the extremely liberal immigration policies of most European countries. I'd get the hell out of Turkey, or Somalia, or Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Iraq, or Yemen, or Chesnya, or Nigeria, or Tunesia, or Qatar, or Angola, or Nepal, or Bosnia too if at all possible.
The problem is that these extremely liberal social programs in most European countries encourage the growth of ghettos by allowing immigrants to immediately receive full benefits of European citizenship (and then some), including unemployment, medical, and free housing, without enforcing policies that create assimiliation into the local culture. Instead of assimilation into European culture, these masses of Muslim immigrants are forcing European countries to conform to THEIR beliefs - sharia law in European banks (Muslims participating in sharia banking pay no interest - while their non-Muslim European neighbors do), no pork ever in schools and state run institutions, special hours at public swimming pools for women only, separate morgue rooms in state run hospitals (paid for by European citizens' tax dollars) because Muslim dead cannot be in the same room with non Muslim dead, local churches converted to mosques and the Christian cemeteries bulldozed, praying rooms in schools, calls to prayer over loudspeakers five times a day in villages across Europe, the removal of Christmas decorations and the word "Christmas" in many areas because it offends Muslims, censorship of political cartoons, films, books, commentaries, etc because of fear of violent reprisals by Muslim extremists...shall I go on? I can if you like, but I'll stop for now.
Europeans are now beginning to rather sluggishly react to the riots in the streets of Paris and Copenhagen and London (by "youths" burning cars and shops - happens on a pretty regular basis), and the steady stream of terrorist attacks on their own soil, by pushing back in very ineffective ways. For instance, banning headscarves in France or minarets in Switzerland. Instead of amending their immigration and civil laws, they are treating the SYMPTOMS rather than the CAUSE by implementing ridiculous and oppressive knee-jerk laws that mainly affect peaceful, law abiding Muslim men, women and children.
Which leads me to my next point - I don't blame the majority of Muslim immigrants in Europe for this situation. Like I said, if I lived in some of the Muslim-dominated societies I listed above, I'd want to move my family to Europe too. It would look like a slice of heaven to me, and a great place to raise my kids - subsidized housing in peaceful, picturesque villages and towns, free medical care and schooling, free language classes, extensive and lenient unemployment benefits - all in countries who seem very willing to create societies that encourage the expansion of Muslim communities and values.
The problem is - there's a disconnect between politics and the native peoples of these countries - people who don't want to wake up to calls to prayer over loudspeakers, who wonder why they pay interest on loans when the local Muslims don't, people who are alarmed by the growing crime rates in the new ghettos and honor killings, who wonder why their local government allowed the Muslims who bought the church and converted it into a mosque to bulldoze their grandmother's grave into oblivion.
This month, in Germany a Muslim mother of four was beheaded and had her fingers chopped off by her husband - an honor killing. In fact, there have been several honor killings in Germany, Sweden and Belgium within the past couple of years (as well as the US and Canada, but that's a differnt story for a different day). Last month in Paris, an actress was doused with gasoline and threatened to be burned to death by Muslim extremists who were angered at her portrayal of Muslim men in an act. Chechnya had many suicide bombings and attacks in 2009 that killed innocent civilians. A Sikh cleric was beaten severely in a racially motivated attack by extremists in England last year. Moderate Muslims are also often attacked by extremists, for being too "westernized."
Throw in the murder of Theo Van Gogh, the threats to Salmun Rushdie, random attacks on westerners, Hindus, Sikhs and Hasidic Jews in Denmark, Germany, France and England, and a few all-out large scale terrorist attacks on subways and riots in the streets of Paris and an ugly, alarming picture starts to emerge.
Add to their alarm the fact that in ANY society, ghettos and public housing projects that are filled with displaced people and the unemployed are going to be crime-infested. This in itself has very little to do with Islam - it's just human nature and the human condition. Where you have poverty and an upheaval in family structure, you will see a rise in anger, especially among the youth in that area. This creates a fertile environment for the growth of extremism, regardless of political or religious ideologies.
The youth in these areas are manipulated by Muslim extremists and their anger and frustration is fueled by radical imans and leaders. Not so different from gang leaders and radical preachers anywhere. But these radical Muslim leaders are leading "schools" on revolt, domination and terrorism.
Every day, EVERY DAY, there are terrorist attacks by the students of these "schools" somewhere in the world. Their targets are very often Western targets.
That's my position and that's why I believe that radical Islam is a very dangerous movement that must, if at all possible, be rejected and restrained, in order to protect, not only Westerners, but any peaceful Muslims or others who dare to disagree with their message of dominance, intolerance, and hatred.
1. There is an element in Islam led by people - some of whom are organized and some of whom are independent - who see Islam as a political system as well as a set of religious beliefs.
2. Many of the followers of the more political leaders of Islam hate Western civilization and consider Westerners - and any opponent to their particular ideology - to be their enemies.
3. These more radical members of Islam make it difficult for the rest of the world - including their own Muslim family, friends, and neighbors - by insisting on participating in terrorist activities which, to this date in modern history (since 9-11) have carried out nearly 15,000 (YES, 15,000) deadly or injurious attacks on people who do not believe as they do. (Example: The latest attack as of this morning of 2/28/10 was in the Phillipines, where 28 people, including 12 women and children, were gunned down by Moro Islamists. Eleven people were killed.)
In fact, there are so many attacks worldwide by Islamist extremists that we hardly even pay attention to the various reports of violence anymore - they all just sort of blur together in the news. But I bet they make quite an impression on the thousands of victims every year.
4. If I were Muslim and lived in the conditions present in so many Islam-dominated societies, I would want to immigrate elsewhere too, so I certainly don't blame Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) taking advantage of the extremely liberal immigration policies of most European countries. I'd get the hell out of Turkey, or Somalia, or Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Iraq, or Yemen, or Chesnya, or Nigeria, or Tunesia, or Qatar, or Angola, or Nepal, or Bosnia too if at all possible.
The problem is that these extremely liberal social programs in most European countries encourage the growth of ghettos by allowing immigrants to immediately receive full benefits of European citizenship (and then some), including unemployment, medical, and free housing, without enforcing policies that create assimiliation into the local culture. Instead of assimilation into European culture, these masses of Muslim immigrants are forcing European countries to conform to THEIR beliefs - sharia law in European banks (Muslims participating in sharia banking pay no interest - while their non-Muslim European neighbors do), no pork ever in schools and state run institutions, special hours at public swimming pools for women only, separate morgue rooms in state run hospitals (paid for by European citizens' tax dollars) because Muslim dead cannot be in the same room with non Muslim dead, local churches converted to mosques and the Christian cemeteries bulldozed, praying rooms in schools, calls to prayer over loudspeakers five times a day in villages across Europe, the removal of Christmas decorations and the word "Christmas" in many areas because it offends Muslims, censorship of political cartoons, films, books, commentaries, etc because of fear of violent reprisals by Muslim extremists...shall I go on? I can if you like, but I'll stop for now.
Europeans are now beginning to rather sluggishly react to the riots in the streets of Paris and Copenhagen and London (by "youths" burning cars and shops - happens on a pretty regular basis), and the steady stream of terrorist attacks on their own soil, by pushing back in very ineffective ways. For instance, banning headscarves in France or minarets in Switzerland. Instead of amending their immigration and civil laws, they are treating the SYMPTOMS rather than the CAUSE by implementing ridiculous and oppressive knee-jerk laws that mainly affect peaceful, law abiding Muslim men, women and children.
Which leads me to my next point - I don't blame the majority of Muslim immigrants in Europe for this situation. Like I said, if I lived in some of the Muslim-dominated societies I listed above, I'd want to move my family to Europe too. It would look like a slice of heaven to me, and a great place to raise my kids - subsidized housing in peaceful, picturesque villages and towns, free medical care and schooling, free language classes, extensive and lenient unemployment benefits - all in countries who seem very willing to create societies that encourage the expansion of Muslim communities and values.
The problem is - there's a disconnect between politics and the native peoples of these countries - people who don't want to wake up to calls to prayer over loudspeakers, who wonder why they pay interest on loans when the local Muslims don't, people who are alarmed by the growing crime rates in the new ghettos and honor killings, who wonder why their local government allowed the Muslims who bought the church and converted it into a mosque to bulldoze their grandmother's grave into oblivion.
This month, in Germany a Muslim mother of four was beheaded and had her fingers chopped off by her husband - an honor killing. In fact, there have been several honor killings in Germany, Sweden and Belgium within the past couple of years (as well as the US and Canada, but that's a differnt story for a different day). Last month in Paris, an actress was doused with gasoline and threatened to be burned to death by Muslim extremists who were angered at her portrayal of Muslim men in an act. Chechnya had many suicide bombings and attacks in 2009 that killed innocent civilians. A Sikh cleric was beaten severely in a racially motivated attack by extremists in England last year. Moderate Muslims are also often attacked by extremists, for being too "westernized."
Throw in the murder of Theo Van Gogh, the threats to Salmun Rushdie, random attacks on westerners, Hindus, Sikhs and Hasidic Jews in Denmark, Germany, France and England, and a few all-out large scale terrorist attacks on subways and riots in the streets of Paris and an ugly, alarming picture starts to emerge.
Add to their alarm the fact that in ANY society, ghettos and public housing projects that are filled with displaced people and the unemployed are going to be crime-infested. This in itself has very little to do with Islam - it's just human nature and the human condition. Where you have poverty and an upheaval in family structure, you will see a rise in anger, especially among the youth in that area. This creates a fertile environment for the growth of extremism, regardless of political or religious ideologies.
The youth in these areas are manipulated by Muslim extremists and their anger and frustration is fueled by radical imans and leaders. Not so different from gang leaders and radical preachers anywhere. But these radical Muslim leaders are leading "schools" on revolt, domination and terrorism.
Every day, EVERY DAY, there are terrorist attacks by the students of these "schools" somewhere in the world. Their targets are very often Western targets.
That's my position and that's why I believe that radical Islam is a very dangerous movement that must, if at all possible, be rejected and restrained, in order to protect, not only Westerners, but any peaceful Muslims or others who dare to disagree with their message of dominance, intolerance, and hatred.
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