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Are Codes created by random processes or intelligence?

9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Man of Faith said:
Well what I have in mind for random is something like a snowflake or a hurricane. Each snowflake is different but they are produced randomly or undirected by an intelligence. Same as a hurricane, when the atmospheric properties are right, brought about by randomness a hurricane is the result.
Click to expand...
"Undirected" is not the same thing as "random".

Neither snowflakes or hurricanes are random. The pattern of a snowflake is largely dictated by the angle of the bond in a water molecule. In the case of hurricanes, I agree that they're hard to predict, but the mechanisms in their formation are generally understood, and their likelihood of formation varies with all sorts of factors.

If hurricanes were truly random, there wouldn't be such a thing as a "hurricane season", and they could happen anywhere with equal likelihood. The fact that we in the Toronto area are much less likely to get hit by a hurricane than someone in the Carribean, and the fact that this person in the Carribean is either more or less likely to be hit by a hurricane depending on the time of year, indicates that hurricanes aren't completely "random".
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
So MoF still thinks chemistry and evolution are random processes.

See how pointless everyone's efforts were at trying to educate him?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Man of Faith said:
For example a code of law, code of conduct, Morris code, computer code, or the genetic code?
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OK, first of all, you're listing four "codes" that obviously were and are being created by people.

The genetic code - although we call it a "code" is not a code created by someone that we can identify.

Just because something has a similar name doesn't mean its precisely the same thing or shares the same attributes.

Why do we call it a "code"? Well, "code" is simply a word used to describe a pattern or law. There are patterns in human created "codes" and then there are patterns in nature (not the same thing!), and when observed closely these patterns have indicated a system of evolution.

(jeez, I feel like I'm explaining this to a two year old)
 
Amill

Amill

Apikoros
Why not just ask why Hydrogen and Oxygen form this molecule and substance we call water, instead of having some other properties. Is that really less amazing than DNA? All of this is crazy, it's not like the idea of a supernatural and eternal being makes sense either.
 
Gunfingers

Gunfingers

Happiness Incarnate
To reiterate, this is not random. The fact that there was not an intelligence behind it does not make it random. The amino acids that make up DNA occur naturally, and their synthesis has been simulated in the lab. These amino acids bond together as per the laws of physics. Take a chemistry class and learn about chemical bonds some time. While bound with each other they also bind with phosphate-deoxyribose. This is what connects ordered pairs together.

Here's a picture of it.

This isn't random any more than the sun fusing hydrogen atoms together is random. It's just chemical reactions that occur naturally. At some point they began replicating and collecting other molecules to form proto-cells and eventually actual cells. The exact mechanics at that stage are unknown. You are trying to treat this like a book or something. It isn't. Think of it more like numbers in relation to fingers. Our fingers were already there before we had a counting system, but we used them to represent numbers.
 
M

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
Daemon Sophic said:
OK people. I'm calling the thread.
There's no more need for heroic efforts of intelligence, reason, logic, or evidence.

Time of death, 16:31 hours U.S. East Coast time. That's a wrap.


:facepalm:
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Well you are actually the one that believes that all codes are made by intelligence except for one. :rolleyes:
 
M

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
"Undirected" is not the same thing as "random".

Neither snowflakes or hurricanes are random. The pattern of a snowflake is largely dictated by the angle of the bond in a water molecule. In the case of hurricanes, I agree that they're hard to predict, but the mechanisms in their formation are generally understood, and their likelihood of formation varies with all sorts of factors.

If hurricanes were truly random, there wouldn't be such a thing as a "hurricane season", and they could happen anywhere with equal likelihood. The fact that we in the Toronto area are much less likely to get hit by a hurricane than someone in the Carribean, and the fact that this person in the Carribean is either more or less likely to be hit by a hurricane depending on the time of year, indicates that hurricanes aren't completely "random".
Click to expand...

It would have to be random to some extent or else we could predict when and where hurricans can happen. All we can say is the the situation is right for hurricanes.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
we do predict when and where hurricanes can happen... we call them tropical storms and then predict if those will turn into hurricanes.

wa:do
 
M

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
OK, first of all, you're listing four "codes" that obviously were and are being created by people.

The genetic code - although we call it a "code" is not a code created by someone that we can identify.

Just because something has a similar name doesn't mean its precisely the same thing or shares the same attributes.

Why do we call it a "code"? Well, "code" is simply a word used to describe a pattern or law. There are patterns in human created "codes" and then there are patterns in nature (not the same thing!), and when observed closely these patterns have indicated a system of evolution.

(jeez, I feel like I'm explaining this to a two year old)
Click to expand...

Actually codes are not random patterns, they have an intelligence behind them. The wind blows sand around, that is random, the genetic code is information that is used to design life forms.
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Man of Faith said:
Actually codes are not random patterns, they have an intelligence behind them. The wind blows sand around, that is random, the genetic code is information that is used to design life forms.
Click to expand...

Now you're making-up your own definitions and using that definition to affirm the consequent.

Genetic "code" is not a "code" in the same way that you define it. It is, as other posters have said, merely a pattern of chemical signals. It requires no "encoding" or intelligence behind it - it replicates perfectly naturally on it's own.

Nor is the creation of these chemical patterns "random" by any definition. I suggest you read up on biology and chemistry to see for yourself exactly how these patterns emerge.
 
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