Worship using Statues

[Deukal]

In my beliefs, Statues are used in altars where sacrifices are preformed. It seems that the sin described by the Ten Commandments where idols should not be worshiped can be arguably not applied to similar practicies to mine as the main belief in the sin is that the use of "idols" is man worshiping a man-created god, but in my belief for example, the statues are not worshiped directly, rather the beings known as Gods to us. So, how does this commandment even apply to the use of statues in worship?

Thoughts?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Deukal,

There is a similar commandment in islam.
Personal understanding is that idols are never worshiped.
It is understood that everything that we see or do not see is the same *god* in all forms and no-forms.
So, worship is plain worship be it form or no-form.

Love & rgds

 

[footprints]

In my beliefs, Statues are used in altars where sacrifices are preformed. It seems that the sin described by the Ten Commandments where idols should not be worshiped can be arguably not applied to similar practicies to mine as the main belief in the sin is that the use of "idols" is man worshiping a man-created god, but in my belief for example, the statues are not worshiped directly, rather the beings known as Gods to us. So, how does this commandment even apply to the use of statues in worship?

Thoughts?

Hi Deukal,

To have an idol or statue in front of you when you worship doesn't mean you are worshipping the idol. Only if you actually worship the idol or statue do you actually worship it.

When people pray at the wailing wall, they aren't really praying to the wall.

 

[Deukal]

Hi Deukal,

To have an idol or statue in front of you when you worship doesn't mean you are worshipping the idol. Only if you actually worship the idol or statue do you actually worship it.

When people pray at the wailing wall, they aren't really praying to the wall.

Yes indeed, so is the supposed sin of the Ten Commandments the worship of the idols or is it all encompassing to the use of idols?

Im pretty sure it is "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven idols to worship".

 

[Archer]

Great topic, and good posts.

I would like to add to this if I may. I have seen many times in churches the church leaders being Idolized and their word being takes as scripture.

Is that idol worship?

 

[Charity]

I think it depends on the person and their own convictions that's why we have diversity.....
As for myself I prefer no statues or idols.....Except maybe Brad Pitt...

 

[Mr Cheese]

Hi Deukal,

To have an idol or statue in front of you when you worship doesn't mean you are worshipping the idol. Only if you actually worship the idol or statue do you actually worship it.

When people pray at the wailing wall, they aren't really praying to the wall.

well said...

and I agree totally...

a statue, icon etc is for focus...

I like coptic icons...

 

[Demonic Kitten]

I have to agree. Besides Christians do the same thing...look at all the statues the Catholics use in their cathedrals...not to mention the use of Christ hanging on a cross. I like to think of statues and the likes as representatives or like Mr.Cheese said..focal points.

 

[TheKnight]

In my beliefs, Statues are used in altars where sacrifices are preformed. It seems that the sin described by the Ten Commandments where idols should not be worshiped can be arguably not applied to similar practicies to mine as the main belief in the sin is that the use of "idols" is man worshiping a man-created god, but in my belief for example, the statues are not worshiped directly, rather the beings known as Gods to us. So, how does this commandment even apply to the use of statues in worship?

Thoughts?

Does it violate idolatry? That is a matter of opinion. But the second commandment woul definitely make it prohibited "Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" (Exodus 20:3)

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I don't worship my statues. I use them to help me focus on the Deity I am praising. This is no different than a Catholic looking to a crucifix. A lot of people have a problem understanding this concept for some reason...

 

[Herr Heinrich]

Statues and other images serve as reminders of what we are worshiping. They are more of an aid to focus than an object of worship. When viewed like that it is not considered to be against the ten commandments.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think the commandment was really for the Jews, not anyone else. Jews are not allowed to use statues and statuettes that represent things in worship. That's what I think it means.

Any Jews want to clarify?

 

[Deukal]

Statues and other images serve as reminders of what we are worshiping. They are more of an aid to focus than an object of worship. When viewed like that it is not considered to be against the ten commandments.

I agree entirely. Though some do view the use of statues at all in worship or prayer to be a violation of the 10 Commandments.

 

[footprints]

Yes indeed, so is the supposed sin of the Ten Commandments the worship of the idols or is it all encompassing to the use of idols?

Im pretty sure it is "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven idols to worship".

On a personal level, I am not really sure if the worshipping of idols or the all emcompassing to the use of idols, is really a sin. To accept that it is a sin means that a person believes that God per se, is a jealous God, that God per se is beyond reason or common sense. This doesn't align with the God per se in the Garden of Eden nor the God per se Lord Jesus spoke so highly of even though Lord Jesus displayed a lot of human nature when he "Lost it," at the markets in the temple.

Following the Garden of Eden, just after the tree of knowledge, it was clearly shown mankind trusted their own intelligence over the intelligence of God. Nakedness which wasn't a sin in Gods eyes, suddenly became a sin in the eyes of mankind. God didn't even try to change their minds and tell them hey you don't need to cover up, it was as if God had dealt with human intelligence before and knew it would serve no purpose. God per se who walked freely in the Garden of Eden, suddenly became a burning bush which nobody could look upon. Pretty much where human nature is concerned nothing can really be trusted as absolute Gospel after the tree of knowledge.

If a person actually believed that the image they were worshipping was God per se, then I would see no logical reason why the alleged deity would need to be jealous in the first instance. As nobody in this life can really define who or what God per se is, let alone what this alleged deity looks like, an image of anything would still bring this alleged deity honour.

 

[Thief]

So...I went and got my King James 1960.

The quote of focus isn't about.... focus.

God has set in place a situation forbidding a graven image.
Not allowed.

I can see why.
We humans tend to be visual, on all counts, even in thought.
I'm sure you can 'see' what I mean.

Placing before yourself any physical image, and then allowing that image to be the 'focus', corrupts the proper 'image' of God, and consequently the proper 'image' of Man.

We humans are so akin to our sight, we can't really 'see'.
Using a graven image won't help.
It would be better..... to close your eyes.

 

[Riverwolf]

So...I went and got my King James 1960.

The quote of focus isn't about.... focus.

God has set in place a situation forbidding a graven image.
Not allowed.

I can see why.
We humans tend to be visual, on all counts, even in thought.
I'm sure you can 'see' what I mean.

Placing before yourself any physical image, and then allowing that image to be the 'focus', corrupts the proper 'image' of God, and consequently the proper 'image' of Man.

We humans are so akin to our sight, we can't really 'see'.
Using a graven image won't help.
It would be better..... to close your eyes.

For some, that's true. However, for most of us, even if we close our eyes, our minds will conceive of some sort of graven image. Therefore it is a fruitless effort to do away with these images in helping us focus. However, once we grow beyond the need of them, that's when we discard them.

 

[Katzpur]

I would like to add to this if I may. I have seen many times in churches the church leaders being Idolized and their word being takes as scripture.

Is that idol worship?

Well, obviously if you idolize someone, that is idol worship. I don't think it's the same thing as making a "graven image" to worship, but it's probably not something God would want us to do anyway.

I found your comment about people taking the word of their church leaders as scripture is kind of odd, though. Where do you think scriptures came from in the first place? No matter what religion you're talking about, if it has any holy texts, these texts (i.e. scriptures) came from someone the people looked to as leaders. In Old Testament times, people listened to the words of men they believed to be prophets. In New Testament times, they trusted the words of the Apostles. Muslims rely on the words of Muhammad and Mormons on the words of Joseph Smith. That doesn't mean that they are idolizing these people; they just see them as someone God has chosen as a spokesman.

 

[TheKnight]

I think the commandment was really for the Jews, not anyone else. Jews are not allowed to use statues and statuettes that represent things in worship. That's what I think it means.

Any Jews want to clarify?

Non-Jews are also not allowed to use statues to represent God.


Now, there are some opinions that a non-Jew is allowed to engage in ****uf. Which means that they believe the God of Israel is the supreme God and there are lesser gods. However, worship/prayer/sacrifice etc is to be directed to God alone.

 

[Riverwolf]

Non-Jews are also not allowed to use statues to represent God.


Now, there are some opinions that a non-Jew is allowed to engage in ****uf. Which means that they believe the God of Israel is the supreme God and there are lesser gods. However, worship/prayer/sacrifice etc is to be directed to God alone.

But weren't the Ten Commandments, and the rest of the Torah, given specifically to the people of Israel?

 

[TheKnight]

But weren't the Ten Commandments, and the rest of the Torah, given specifically to the people of Israel?

Yes. I'm not speaking of the Ten Commandments but of the Noahide laws. Yes, the Ten Commandments do not prohibit a non-Jew from anything.

However, the Noahide laws do. So while that particular commandment to the Jews does not apply the Noahides. There is a similar Noahide commandment that does apply to Non-Jews.