Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I'll tell you something, mball - when you use good judgment, it DOES make life easier most of the time. Of course, sometimes life throws a curve ball at you, but even so, good judgment and sound reasoning can still help, even in the most trying situations. Wouldn't you agree?
This proves to me (though of course, it's no surprise to me) that you do not actually even WANT to understand what I'm saying. I never have said, not one time, in this thread or any other, that good decision making or taking responsibility for your actions will eliminate poverty. What I SAID is that these components are necessary in order to truly better your life if you are stuck in a cycle of poverty. Of course I realize that there are some situations (usually involving disabiliy or personal tragedy) that create an ongoing need for public assistance, and will always be a struggle for the people involved, but for the majority of people who are poor in the US (by the way, most of them would be wealthy by much of the world's standards), a combination of bad decisions and bad luck have landed them where they are. These are the people who can benefit from programs, public and private, that also teach life skills and encourage personal growth and responsibility.
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OK, good. Now, we can get to some intelligent conversation, rather than just "Poor people are all irresponsible."
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Is this an attempt at humor, or are you really this daft?
I have never in my life said this, and I don't believe it. But YES, SOME poor people are irresponsible. Those are the ones who can benefit from life coaching - those are the ones who certainly don't need to spend their lives on public assistance at a cost to others who ARE responsible. Many people who don't handle their lives well do this because they have truly never been taught HOW to make better decisions. No one has ever believed in them, never rewarded them for good choices. These people can blossom when someone takes the time to truly help them get on their feet, rather than just chunking food stamps at them.
Haven't you heard the old adage about either giving a man a fish or teaching him to fish? If you give him a fish, you have to keep doing that every single day for the rest of his life. But teach him to fish - take the time on the front end and give him the tools - and he can support himself. There's a whole lotta truth to this.
Mestemia, this is the debate section, so I assume people who are on this thread are here to debate a point. No one on this thread asked me for help or advice, or approached me with just general conversation. If they had, my responses would have been different.
In "real life" I volunteer my time and money to teach classes and counsel single women who are stuck in a cycle of poverty. The program I work with is very effective and the director has asked me back year after year for about the past ten years. So I guess I DO "treat people with the same consideration" after all.
However, UV has never asked me for any advice, and I haven't earned the right to give her advice. She has, however, debated with me on numerous occasions. She's a good debater, obviously an intelligent woman. She strikes me as tough enough to engage in an honest debate. Personally, I think she's a fascinating woman, and she obviously doesn't want any sympathy from me. I
I can, however, empathize with her situation. At 33, I found myself in much the same position as her. I was a single mom with four kids, receiving no child support, had no college degree, and I hadn't worked outside the home in 11 years. I had been a "good wife and mother," closely following the very strict rules of the church I belonged to. I had felt trapped in that marriage for years - my husband was abusive but in an insiduous way. He wouldn't actually BEAT me but he would terrorize us all with threats of violence, including threatening to shoot all of us (that was the last straw - that's when I finally left him). It's a long story but that's the shortened gyst of it.
Anyway, my faith in God and Church was profoundly shaken. I had done everything "right" and now I was alone with four kids under age 10.
I got out of this situation. It was very tough but I did it, and my own personal success involved getting out of that "victim mode" and determining that I would make better decisions - and accepting the fault that I had in staying in an abusive relationship with kids for eleven years. It was MY decisions, no one else's, that had put me into that relationship, and that marriage, and it was bad judgment that kept me there for eleven years.
Sure - my exhusband had fault in it - and sure, a church that didn't offer help for that sort of situation also had fault - but ultimately, it was my responsibility. You can't change other people - but you can change yourself. When I realized that it was not my responsibility to change that man, or that church - it was a profound moment for me. It was my epiphany moment, actually -and the first step on my road to true freedom from him, and from an oppressive religion.
My success didn't happen overnight - it took years of hard work, and I made other mistakes along the way - but I was on a better path.
I found my faith again - a more balanced version of it that actually empowers rather than traps people.
I raised my kids pretty successfully - even though we did hit some speed bumps along the way, and I've still got one who hasn't pulled his life together yet. But he's coming around finally, at age 21.
I speak from a lot of personal experience on this topic, Mestemia. What I say isn't always fluffy and politically correct, but I know that it works because I've personally lived it, and the lives of the women I work with are also testimony that this approach works in many lives - at least, in the lives of people who are willing and able to change their direction. Those are the ones I am so passionate about helping.
