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To any Atheists, I Have a Few Scenarios for you to Look At.

DarkSun

:eltiT
Imagine these scenarios:

1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.

2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.

3 - You're walking passed a church one day. The year is 2010 and your life is going pretty darn well. Suddenly, a small child strolls out and asks you why you're not inside. Not believing in a God of any kind, you smile to the boy and say you don't belong there. The boy frowns and walks back inside. You sigh. That poor child is being brainwashed. He's deluded and his parents are feeding lies to him. Prove this to be true.
 
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Smoke

Done here.
Oh, wow. I see now that if I can't prove a negative, I can't be an atheist. It's so obvious! And if anybody's belief or testimony has ever been doubted, and that person turned out to be right, it is obvious that the beliefs and testimonies of believers are also right! I can't think why I didn't see it before! Hallelujah!
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It's 2000. You're walking along a street one day when a homeless person panhandles you. You refuse to give him any money, so he curses you, saying, "The next time you have sex, you'll catch a deadly pox." Consequently, you spend the rest of your life celibate in order to foil his curse. Prove that you weren't an idiot.
 

nonbeliever_92

Well-Known Member
Imagine these scenarios:

1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.

2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.

3 - You're walking passed a church one day. The year is 2010 and your life is going pretty darn well. Suddenly, a small child strolls out and asks you why you're not inside. Not believing in a God of any kind, you smile to the boy and say you don't belong there. The boy frowns and walks back inside. You sigh. That poor child is being brainwashed. He's deluded and his parents are feeding lies to him. Prove this to be true.


:facepalm: How the hell do you propose someone "proves" a negative? It's not the perrogative of an atheist to "prove" that there isn't a god, nor is it necessary for one to do so. These are too weak to even be called strawmen. :rolleyes:
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.
Travel down to Australia and see for yourself :p.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Oh, wow. I see now that if I can't prove a negative, I can't be an atheist. It's so obvious! And if anybody's belief or testimony has ever been doubted, and that person turned out to be right, it is obvious that the beliefs and testimonies of believers are also right! I can't think why I didn't see it before! Hallelujah!

It's 2000. You're walking along a street one day when a homeless person panhandles you. You refuse to give him any money, so he curses you, saying, "The next time you have sex, you'll catch a deadly pox." Consequently, you spend the rest of your life celibate in order to foil his curse. Prove that you weren't an idiot.

Not remotely what I was getting at, but nice strawman.

I don't believe theists have a clue. Prove me wrong.

I can't. And you can't disprove that some theists might be onto something. So everyone's on equal ground, really.

:facepalm: How the hell do you propose someone "proves" a negative? It's not the perrogative of an atheist to "prove" that there isn't a god, nor is it necessary for one to do so. These are too weak to even be called strawmen. :rolleyes:


How would someone prove a negative? Well you can't, can you? And it just so happens that in this case, the "positive" also can't be proven. So unless someone actually provides some scientific evidence one way or the other, both theists and atheists are equally justified in their views.

Travel down to Australia and see for yourself :p.

What? Go down to Australia just to disprove something I know is wrong? What lunacy is this? :p
 
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Religionisus

New Member
What about this:
Atheists have a belief system which include:
Enjoy life,
Call every Christian crazy,
Read the God delusion,

So Atheism is a religion, so Atheists are being that what they hate, so they should kill themselves to get rid of their religion!

:D
 

Phasmid

Mr Invisible
What about this:
Atheists have a belief system which include:
Enjoy life,
Call every Christian crazy,
Read the God delusion,

So Atheism is a religion, so Atheists are being that what they hate, so they should kill themselves to get rid of their religion!

:D

It's not a belief system at all... it's just a lack of belief in god. Militant atheists don't represent all atheists just as YEC don't represent all Christians.
 

Religionisus

New Member
It's not a belief system at all... it's just a lack of belief in god. Militant atheists don't represent all atheists just as YEC don't represent all Christians.

You sure about that?

The Atheist Life:

Fight Christians,
Fight Religion,
Enjoy life,
Nothing is a sin, you can do whatever you want,
Eat have sex 24/7 it doesn't matter,


Really the atheist's way of living sounds like The Church of Satan's way of living and since some of them claim to be Atheists...it sounds like Atheists do have rules.

Atheism is the belief of no Gods

Belief= System of beliefs= Religion.

Just face it...Religion will never die.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
You sure about that?

The Atheist Life:

Fight Christians,
Fight Religion,
Enjoy life,
Nothing is a sin, you can do whatever you want,
Eat have sex 24/7 it doesn't matter,


Really the atheist's way of living sounds like The Church of Satan's way of living and since some of them claim to be Atheists...it sounds like Atheists do have rules.

Atheism is the belief of no Gods

Belief= System of beliefs= Religion.

Just face it...Religion will never die.
Actually you have no idea of what it means to be an atheist. Atheism is not more of a religion then theism is.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
What about this:
Atheists have a belief system which include:
Enjoy life,
Call every Christian crazy,
Read the God delusion,

So Atheism is a religion, so Atheists are being that what they hate, so they should kill themselves to get rid of their religion!

:D

:biglaugh:
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
You sure about that?

The Atheist Life:

Fight Christians,
Fight Religion,
Enjoy life,
Nothing is a sin, you can do whatever you want,
Eat have sex 24/7 it doesn't matter,


Really the atheist's way of living sounds like The Church of Satan's way of living and since some of them claim to be Atheists...it sounds like Atheists do have rules.

Atheism is the belief of no Gods

Belief= System of beliefs= Religion.

Just face it...Religion will never die.

Uh oh, looks like someone leaked a copy of the Atheist Agenda, people are catching on... y'all are gonna have to regroup and restrategize. :cover:
 

Ardeaa

Member
1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.

Perhaps I'm a nitpicker, but this scenario itself is flawed. Perhaps you remember Black Elk, who had a similar vision? When he told his people,they not only took it seriously, but also undertook to "manifest" the vision through an elaborate ceremony. He was honored as a seer. Native Americans have always respected dreams and visions.
 

themadhair

Well-Known Member
It's 2000. You're walking along a street one day when a homeless person panhandles you. You refuse to give him any money, so he curses you, saying, "The next time you have sex, you'll catch a deadly pox." Consequently, you spend the rest of your life celibate in order to foil his curse. Prove that you weren't an idiot.
I too want to see how this is a strawman. Particularly given that you seemed unwilling to confront such analogies in previous treads.

I can imagine OJ’s lawyer in court during his next case telling the jury that since they cannot disprove aliens involvement with the evidence they must acquit due to contaminated evidence. Thankfully our justice systems don’t work on the flawed principles of the OP’s logic.
 

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.
I don't get it.. Was it my dream or the girls dream? And who is that girl anyway?
And why on earth would I keep telling others my dream if they all think it's just a dream anyway? Why would "what I believe" and "what I keep telling them" be the same?

2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.
I have no need to prove him wrong, I don't care if he has a different belief from mine. Besides, it is just a swan. Beautifull creatures, but not interresting enough for me to discover the black swan. Whenever I see one I'll tell my friend he was right.

3 - You're walking passed a church one day. The year is 2010 and your life is going pretty darn well. Suddenly, a small child strolls out and asks you why you're not inside. Not believing in a God of any kind, you smile to the boy and say you don't belong there. The boy frowns and walks back inside. You sigh. That poor child is being brainwashed. He's deluded and his parents are feeding lies to him. Prove this to be true.
I get the feeling that when you said "to any atheist...", you actually didn't mean me at all? :confused:
I do not view the kid as poor and neither is he brainwashed. After all, at his age he could have been me running out of that church. His parents might be feeding lies, but I asume they are in that church as well and do not see it as lies. Furthermore, If I would need to prove anything to the boy, it would still mean I would have to get int hat church or wait for the boy to come back. Both are not interresting enough to spend my time on.

Now I know I am only the first to really answer the questions, I am curious as to why you made them..
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Ooh! Is this like 2-Minute Mysteries?

1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.
Nothing in her dream occured, so while "proof" lies in that piece of evidence that convinces, there is no evidence here that could convince.

2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.
I like the suggestion to travel to Australia and find out for oneself. That would supply the needed piece of evidence.

3 - You're walking passed a church one day. The year is 2010 and your life is going pretty darn well. Suddenly, a small child strolls out and asks you why you're not inside. Not believing in a God of any kind, you smile to the boy and say you don't belong there. The boy frowns and walks back inside. You sigh. That poor child is being brainwashed. He's deluded and his parents are feeding lies to him. Prove this to be true.
Apart from that I could never think those things, to prove a speculative opinion to be true would require entirely too much work (convincing the child's parents to allow the child to participate, getting licences and permits, hiring investigators and psychologists, devising and conducting empirical experiments), not to mention expensive.
 
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