Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I believe Hinduism can be traced back to the neolithic.
What do you think ?
What do you think ?
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How old is Hinduism
- Thread starter Wannabe Yogi
- Start date
But most people guestimate around 3,000 years
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
quote=Buttons*;1465409]It depends on who you ask But most people guestimate around 3,000 years[/quote]
This use to be the case now there is much more evidence that calls these very late dates in to question.
Rigveda like many other ancient Hindu texts contain several statements of astronomical significance. The Rigveda records the vernal equinox in Mrigashira Constellation pointing to a date around 4000 BCE. The Vedas also talk about a pole star that is visible and its a different pole star then we have today. This citation ( plus many more ) gives a normal range of dates for that event. The astronomical dates put the Historical date of the Rig Veda before 4000 BC.
This use to be the case now there is much more evidence that calls these very late dates in to question.
Rigveda like many other ancient Hindu texts contain several statements of astronomical significance. The Rigveda records the vernal equinox in Mrigashira Constellation pointing to a date around 4000 BCE. The Vedas also talk about a pole star that is visible and its a different pole star then we have today. This citation ( plus many more ) gives a normal range of dates for that event. The astronomical dates put the Historical date of the Rig Veda before 4000 BC.
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
I suppose, but are you REALLY counting Vedas as hinduism? They don't really teach the same sorts of things... for instance, the Isa Upanishad suggests that we should NOT eat any flesh of any creature unless it is already dead.
On the other hand, some traditions from back then also discuss ancient horse sacrifices that took place in order for the new king to "show off' more or less. These are two conflicting scriptures. Depending on what modern Hindus do, wouldnt' it be fairer to date your traditions to the furthest back those traditions go, versus how old the Vedas are?
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Hinduism is not one belief system but many,its a family of faiths. Some sects of Hinduism still only practice the old Vedic methods of fire worship.
I am not familiar with the verse you quote from the Isa Upanishad.
But this is from the Yajur veda Samhita 12.32
You must not use your God-given body for killing Gods creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever.
A very common misconception in the west is that the Vedic Religion is not Hinduism. All the practicing Hindus that I know trace our faith back to the Vedas. Much of the modern scientific evidence also contradicts many of the old beliefs of the western thinkers about the Vedas.
Much of these misconceptions are due to the very poor Vedic translations of early european indologists.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friends,
Personally Sanatan Dharma means The Eternal Path and a Way of life.
Eternal to mean; without beginning or an end.
Besides it also connotes that any human that follows any path as his way of life falls under this category of Sanatan Dharma.
Such a concept would mean that it is as old as the first appearance of humans on earth.
Besides it makes no difference to ages of any religion as lonf as humans become enlightened.
LOve & rgds
Personally Sanatan Dharma means The Eternal Path and a Way of life.
Eternal to mean; without beginning or an end.
Besides it also connotes that any human that follows any path as his way of life falls under this category of Sanatan Dharma.
Such a concept would mean that it is as old as the first appearance of humans on earth.
Besides it makes no difference to ages of any religion as lonf as humans become enlightened.
LOve & rgds
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
Well, that may be so. I did learn about Hinduism in a Western University... however the professor who taught it made sure we were all aware of "orientalism" and how it affects our readings. He tried to give us the best translations, and really made an effort to help us understand it in a "non-west" light. However, it wasn't a very in depth study. We didn't spent a lot of time arguing about the age of Hinduism itself. The professor claimed that most people believe, at least in academia, that it's around 3,000-4,000 years old. BUT, he also made the point to say that ancient Hinduism really isn't anything like modern Hinduism is today. *shrug* I only know a little after that.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I think you are right that this whole conversation is very hard one. I also feel that this has very little to do with the spiritual path we call Hinduism. It is important because the old Euro centered views that White men came down from the north and brought the vedas with them to teach the Indigenous peoples of India religion is not only bad history but its also borders on racism.
Please don't think I am calling any one racist I am not. The Aryan Invasion theory comes from a time when Indigenous people were never given there due.
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Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
We all know that in the Rig Veda the honor of the greatest, best,and holiest of all rivers is the Saraswati not Ganga.
Ambitame naditame devitame sarasvati 2.41.16
The best mother, the best river, the best Goddess, Saraswati
maho arnah saraswati pra cetayati ketuna dhiyo visva virajati 1.3.12
Saraswati like a great ocean appears with her ray, she rules all inspirations
Today the Saraswati is a dried up river bed. but at one time She was a large flowing river from the Himalayas to the ocean. The Ganga is mentioned only one time but the Saraswati is mentioned at least 60 times.
We also know that satellite data has shown that the Saraswati river had stopped being a perennial river around 1900 BC.
Satellite photos show that this great prehistoric river was over 7 kilometers wide. This was the Saraswati described in the Rig Veda. Many archaeological sites have also been found along the this great river thereby confirming all Vedic accounts.
This clearly shows that the Rig Veda describes the geography of North India before 1900 BC. How could the Aryans come to India in 1500 bc and write about this river that dryed up over a 400 years before they ever set there eyes on India.
Ambitame naditame devitame sarasvati 2.41.16
The best mother, the best river, the best Goddess, Saraswati
maho arnah saraswati pra cetayati ketuna dhiyo visva virajati 1.3.12
Saraswati like a great ocean appears with her ray, she rules all inspirations
Today the Saraswati is a dried up river bed. but at one time She was a large flowing river from the Himalayas to the ocean. The Ganga is mentioned only one time but the Saraswati is mentioned at least 60 times.
We also know that satellite data has shown that the Saraswati river had stopped being a perennial river around 1900 BC.
Satellite photos show that this great prehistoric river was over 7 kilometers wide. This was the Saraswati described in the Rig Veda. Many archaeological sites have also been found along the this great river thereby confirming all Vedic accounts.
This clearly shows that the Rig Veda describes the geography of North India before 1900 BC. How could the Aryans come to India in 1500 bc and write about this river that dryed up over a 400 years before they ever set there eyes on India.
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Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
The Indus Valley Civilization (its mature period was from2600 to about 1900 BCE) was an ancient civilization in the Indus River basin.This civilization is sometimes referred to as the the Indus-Sarasvati civilization.
A sophisticated and technologically advanced urban culture is evident in the Indus Valley Civilization making them the first urban centers to have sanitation systems.
The cities of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization seem Hindu for the following reasons:
-Some archaeologists claim that fire worship was practiced in the cities of Lothal, Banawali and Kalibangan in mud-brick structures, that correspond to a certain type of Vedic fire alters.
- Some Indus seals depict what seem to be deities wearing horns and sitting in yogic postures.
-The Great Bath has been the subject of some debate , but the prevalent view seems to be that it was used for ritualistic bathing. Just like Hindu’s today.
-Phallic symbols resembling the Hindu Siva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.
I can not see why some western scholars assume that this ancient people were not Hindu when they seem to have so much in common with the beliefs of todays Hindu’s.
A sophisticated and technologically advanced urban culture is evident in the Indus Valley Civilization making them the first urban centers to have sanitation systems.
The cities of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization seem Hindu for the following reasons:
-Some archaeologists claim that fire worship was practiced in the cities of Lothal, Banawali and Kalibangan in mud-brick structures, that correspond to a certain type of Vedic fire alters.
- Some Indus seals depict what seem to be deities wearing horns and sitting in yogic postures.
-The Great Bath has been the subject of some debate , but the prevalent view seems to be that it was used for ritualistic bathing. Just like Hindu’s today.
-Phallic symbols resembling the Hindu Siva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.
I can not see why some western scholars assume that this ancient people were not Hindu when they seem to have so much in common with the beliefs of todays Hindu’s.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
It is not possible to date such a thing...
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
That is what i said... Maybe just not in so many worlds.
I'd say atleast 5,000 years old. Maybe older but we only have dates/records that go back that far.
The Saraswati river thats talked about often in the Vedas DID exist. Modern Satellite imaging shows the great river's basin/remains. Also along were the river used to be are large amounts of archaeological sights/cities being dug up and researched by the Indian government.
Saying that Hinduism is only 2000 or so years old is a product of the European occupation. A christian belief started in England was that the earth is only 6,000 years old (based upon bible calculations). We onviously know the earth is estimated at 4.55 BILLION years old.
The Aryan occupation is also a bit of european racism. How could Indians have built all these temples, have this advanced culture? They needed Aryan invaders to take over the land and build everything.
Studies of genetic material from the southern Tamil Indians and the very northern ones show almost no variance. The original Indians were not pushed south. If anyone did "invade" they intermixed. The variance in color today is based on geography and nothing more.
NW Indians tend to be lighter skinned because of their closeness to arabs/mediterranian people. The Southern Indians tend on average to have darker skin because of their closeness to Polynesians/SE Asians. Everyone mixed together a long time ago.
Sorry for the essay..but yeah Hinduism is atleast 5,000 years old. Heres a video showing what im talking about, since it wont let me post url's..just go to youtube and type in
Scientific Verification of Vedic Knowledge in Hinduism -1
The Saraswati river thats talked about often in the Vedas DID exist. Modern Satellite imaging shows the great river's basin/remains. Also along were the river used to be are large amounts of archaeological sights/cities being dug up and researched by the Indian government.
Saying that Hinduism is only 2000 or so years old is a product of the European occupation. A christian belief started in England was that the earth is only 6,000 years old (based upon bible calculations). We onviously know the earth is estimated at 4.55 BILLION years old.
The Aryan occupation is also a bit of european racism. How could Indians have built all these temples, have this advanced culture? They needed Aryan invaders to take over the land and build everything.
Studies of genetic material from the southern Tamil Indians and the very northern ones show almost no variance. The original Indians were not pushed south. If anyone did "invade" they intermixed. The variance in color today is based on geography and nothing more.
NW Indians tend to be lighter skinned because of their closeness to arabs/mediterranian people. The Southern Indians tend on average to have darker skin because of their closeness to Polynesians/SE Asians. Everyone mixed together a long time ago.
Sorry for the essay..but yeah Hinduism is atleast 5,000 years old. Heres a video showing what im talking about, since it wont let me post url's..just go to youtube and type in
Scientific Verification of Vedic Knowledge in Hinduism -1
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Although we don’t know the name of individuals, we do know several cultures that contributed to the development of Hinduism.
Of these contributing sources, two are specially important for our understanding of the history of the Hindu tradition. The first is the Indus Valley civilization. The second source is a group called the Aryans, a nomadic group of people who might have migrated to India from Central Asia.
Of these contributing sources, two are specially important for our understanding of the history of the Hindu tradition. The first is the Indus Valley civilization. The second source is a group called the Aryans, a nomadic group of people who might have migrated to India from Central Asia.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
So India had no religion, others came and made it for us. Yeah, because the nation that had the first university in the world needed others for its beliefs...
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I also believe that it more helpful to think of Hinduism as a family of faiths. A big tent with many belief systems and unending types of practice, it is important to have a name to identify this family of faiths and Hinduism is as good as any.
New discoveries in DNA have shown that there was no Aryan Migration into India in this time period. There is no proof that the Aryans came from out side India.