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Can bad symbols be used for good?

Agreed. There is a movement called 'Reclaim the Swastika', that is trying to reclaim the swastika to it's original purpose and meaning. Before the Nazi's used it for the own despicable purposes, it was originally used in Sanskrit representing 'good luck'.

140px-HinduSwastikasvg.png


Though, this could lead into an entirely different thread about whether we are able, or even should take symbols that were used for great evil (despite any of their history) and give them a new and better symbolization.

If anyone would like to take on that discussion, follow it here: Can bad symbols be used for good?

Taken from another thread to discuss whether one can take a symbol that has negative connotation and turn into a positive.

Your thoughts?
 

whereismynotecard

Treasure Hunter
Sure. It's just a symbol. I think we should make all symbols "good" because symbols are awsome, and there is no use making people feel bad when they see a little scribble of a symbol when it can make them feel good instead. :D
 
Sure. It's just a symbol. I think we should make all symbols "good" because symbols are awsome, and there is no use making people feel bad when they see a little scribble of a symbol when it can make them feel good instead. :D

Do you really think that a symbol such as the swatiska taken by the Nazi's can ever fully be turned back into the originally meaning in Sanskrit?
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Symbols rely on the culture and society that surrounds them to give them power. What you're really asking is, can western society ignore the strong connotations and associations we have that connect the Swastika to Nazi Germany and the Holocaust in order to avoid negatively judging innocent Religious traditions which also use the symbol. I would hope the answer is yes, though a certain degree of time is needed for the cultural disassociation of the negative in question.

In a more general sense, it will be easy for society to do this with symbols that are less culturally powerful.
 
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Comicaze247

See the previous line
There's no such thing as a "bad symbol." What's bad is what they were used to represent. What if Christianity used a swastika instead of a cross and the Nazis used a cross instead of a swastika? It doesn't make Christianity evil and the Nazis good. The things they represent don't change. Just like names.

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
-Romeo & Juliet, Shakespeare
 
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Zephyr

Moved on
There's no such thing as a "bad symbol." That's bad is what they were used to represent.
This. Symbols like the fylfot (think swastika), Othala, Algiz, and Sowilo runes have been used by people for all the wrong reasons, but that shouldn't prevent guys like me for using them for the right. I understand it is a sensitive issue (hence why I don't use the fylfot as an avatar anymore), but they're just symbols. Why should a bad usage of them make good usage unacceptable?
 

Comicaze247

See the previous line
This. Symbols like the fylfot (think swastika), Othala, Algiz, and Sowilo runes have been used by people for all the wrong reasons, but that shouldn't prevent guys like me for using them for the right. I understand it is a sensitive issue (hence why I don't use the fylfot as an avatar anymore), but they're just symbols. Why should a bad usage of them make good usage unacceptable?
You don't seem to be disagreeing with me, lol.

I'm saying there's no such thing as a bad symbol. Just bad usages . . .
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
My favourite quote about symbols:
A building is a symbol, as is the act of destroying it.
Symbols are given power by people.
A symbol, in and of itself is powerless,
but with enough people behind it,
blowing up a building can change the world.
~V
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
That's a great quote. I also like this following paragraph about symbols from one of my favorite fantasy authors, Gene Wolfe:

"We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges. When soldiers take their oath they are given a coin, an asimi stamped with the profile of the Autarch. Their acceptance of that coin is their acceptance of the special duties and burdens of military life—they are soldiers from that moment, though they may know nothing of the management of arms. I did not know that then, but it is a profound mistake to believe that we must know of such things to be influenced by them, and in fact to believe so is to believe in the most debased and superstitious kind of magic. The would-be sorcerer alone has faith in the efficacy of pure knowledge; rational people know that things act of themselves or not at all."

SPOILER on relevancy:

The narrator just saved a rebel's life in the first chapter, and the rebel repaid him with a coin. Throughout the book the narrator (a torturer) thinks about the coin in his pocket, and he sees it as a bond between the rebel leader and himself. At the end of the first novel he is captured by the rebel's men and works beneath him to destroy the Autarch (King) and restore a fairer system that will rebuild the world (all of this happens on Earth thousands of years from now, while the Sun is about to die, and technology is seen as magic). It eventually turns out that the coin is a fake, and he comes to believe he shouldn't have saved that rebel's life. It's all beautifully told: the coin theoretically was a symbol he invented, yes, but since it had no connections with reality, he remained blind to its influence.
 
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linwood

Well-Known Member
What about the stars & bars?
This symbol was not co-opted from another source.
It`s origins were born in an ideology that fought for the right to own slaves.


600px-battle_flag_of_the_us_confederacy_svg.thumbnail.png

 

Elessar

Well-Known Member
What about the stars & bars?
This symbol was not co-opted from another source.
It`s origins were born in an ideology that fought for the right to own slaves.



600px-battle_flag_of_the_us_confederacy_svg.thumbnail.png


As a point, that is NOT the Stars and Bars. That is the Confederate Battle Flag. The actual Stars and Bars is:

us-csa.gif
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
As a point, that is NOT the Stars and Bars. That is the Confederate Battle Flag. The actual Stars and Bars is:

My mistake.

I was using the common terminology of those I`ve heard who still fervently wish the South had won.

Maybe they should educate themselves on their own history as you`ve educated me.

:)

Can this symbol ever be co-opted for "good"?
Will you ever see a black man riding around with this symbol in the rear window of his pick-up?
 
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