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Religion in politics

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
You might try reading the posted links before sounding off.

According to the listings, Buddhists are a higher percentage of the US population than Muslims are, at 0.7% Buddhist vs. 0.6% Muslim. So are Don't Know / Refused (0.8%) and Unaffiliated (a big one at 16.1%). Unaffiliated beats the Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Other Faiths and Other World Religions catagories combined.

If I were a candidate, I know where I'd focus my resources.

And how many people out there consider those religions to be major? My entire point is that I get so sick and tired of politicians only pandering to rightwing Christian's (never mind the rest of us out here on their "important" issues and their hypocritical "leaders") and AIPAC. There's more out there. Of course if I could have my way we wouldn't even be bothering with this b.s.
 
The fact still remains they are the third most popular religion in the country.
You make that sound as though it's impressive. To be honest, in America, it isn't. Christianity composes a good 3/4 of the population as the largest religion here....even the second place finisher doesn't hold a candle to that, and you're sounding off about Islam taking third? Do you remember any of the bronze medalists in any of Michael Phelps' races?:shrug:


You can't deny that, can you? If you are going to pander to one religion you should the other two popular religions. "God" just isn't reserved for Christianity.
Since when is it "pandering" to discuss the religion which you and the vast majority of the population identify with more than others? I truly do not understand where you're coming from logically here.
 
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Every religion has the right to try to promote it's interests in government, just as ANY other group with any agenda has the right to promote it's interests. Hell, I even support the Nazi's right to try to change things in government. That's the great thing about democracy - all voices can and should be considered.

However, it is the job of the government to make sure those interests do not infringe upon the rights of the people as a whole. Obviously many of the agendas of the Nazi party would do just that. Christianity as well - most Christian "politics" so to speak are trying to impose solely religious morals on a people that are supposed to be free to do what they will.
 
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LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
You make that sound as though it's impressive. To be honest, in America, it isn't. Christianity composes a good 3/4 of the population as the largest religion here....even the second place finisher doesn't hold a candle to that, and you're sounding off about Islam taking third? Do you remember any of the bronze medalists in any of Michael Phelps' races?:shrug:



Since when is it "pandering" to discuss the religion which you and the vast majority of the population identify with more than others? I truly do not understand where you're coming from logically here.

Stating a fact is just that. I don't really care on how it appears. It's a fact that Islam is currently the third most popular major religion out there and is growing every day. There are other people out there who vote who are not Christian. When the question is asked on if you believe in God other religions claim the name God as well not just Christianity. There are major issues facing the Jews and Muslim's as well and they deserve to be treated the exact same way politicians do to these rightwing churches. And what about the rest of us in Christianity who aren't rightwing?

If you don't understand what pandering is than get a dictionary. Why do you think this latest religious forum was held at Rick Warren's church? Because he's nice or won a drawing?
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Every religion has the right to try to promote it's interests in government, just as ANY other group with any agenda has the right to promote it's interests. Hell, I even support the Nazi's right to try to change things in government. That's the great thing about democracy - all voices can and should be considered.

However, it is the job of the government to make sure those interests do not infringe upon the rights of the people as a whole. Obviously many of the agendas of the Nazi party would do just that. Christianity as well - most Christian "politics" so to speak are trying to impose solely religious morals on a people that are supposed to be free to do what they will.

Actually in a democracy it's ruled by popular say and the rights of the minority are not protected. We here in the States live in a democratic republic with a Constitution that puts limits on the power of government and we have institutions that are supposed to protect the Constitution and keep a check on the government and that they are following the rules.

Only one presidential candidate during the Democratic party primary talked to Muslim's and that was Mike Gravel. I also would love to see a forum hosted by J-Street which is a sorta new progressive/left wing Jewish organization to counteract AIPAC. Why do these politicians only think they should talk to rightwing churches and AIPAC? Even within Christianity there's a lot more diversity. I even liked it when the Catholics in 2004 had a forum where they debated and discussed. Of course it wasn't a presidential forum but it was still interesting and educational to watch. Dealing with the current situation with foreign affairs in the mid east I'd love to see a forum with the American-Arab Instutite. How many people here a lone even know who they are? (That's who Mike Gravel talked to)
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Apparently you don't get it.
Apparently neither do I.
Perhaps it would help if you were to actually explain how you are not advocating the pandering to other religions as well as Christianity?
pan·der
intr.v.
pan·dered, pan·der·ing, pan·ders
1.
To act as a go-between or liaison in sexual intrigues; function as a procurer.
2. To cater to the lower tastes and desires of others or exploit their weaknesses: "He refused to pander to nostalgia and escapism" New York Times.

[Middle English Pandare, Pandarus, from Old Italian Pandaro, from Latin Pandarus, from Greek Pandaros.]
pan
prime.gif
der
n.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
 
Stating a fact is just that. I don't really care on how it appears. It's a fact that Islam is currently the third most popular major religion out there and is growing every day.
But again, you are only stating the facts that make your case look good. When you say "Islam is third" it makes it sound as though Islam represents some huge chunk of the American nation. I'm sorry, it doesn't. You ignore the fact that "third," in real world numbers, means less than 1%. That's all I'm saying.

There are other people out there who vote who are not Christian.
Who denies that?

When the question is asked on if you believe in God other religions claim the name God as well not just Christianity.
Who denies that?
There are major issues facing the Jews and Muslim's as well and they deserve to be treated the exact same way politicians do to these rightwing churches.
Of course there are issues facing Jews and Muslims. No one is denying that, either. But those issues don't need to be blown out of proportion (less than 1%) either.

And what about the rest of us in Christianity who aren't rightwing?
What about you? You should positively adore Barack Obama.


If you don't understand what pandering is than get a dictionary. Why do you think this latest religious forum was held at Rick Warren's church? Because he's nice or won a drawing?
Because evangelical Christianity is a large and influential segment of American society, and that is a large, influential evangelical church. Personally I'm not a fan of the forum, either, but I don't see it as prejudice or unfairness.
 

Kcnorwood

Well-Known Member
So this last weekend was the Saddleback (sp?) church thing. I know Christianity is popular here in the States but that isn't the only religion here. . :)


The main problem here is that outside of Christiany no one really cares about the other religions. They don't have the power that the other religions do they have alot more money to make sure that the laws, they want passed go into effect. With that money comes power & they want to stay in power the Christian right as fought long & hard to get where they are. There are no signs of them giving up on what they deem right for everyone else.
 
Actually in a democracy it's ruled by popular say and the rights of the minority are not protected. We here in the States live in a democratic republic with a Constitution that puts limits on the power of government and we have institutions that are supposed to protect the Constitution and keep a check on the government and that they are following the rules.

Only one presidential candidate during the Democratic party primary talked to Muslim's and that was Mike Gravel. I also would love to see a forum hosted by J-Street which is a sorta new progressive/left wing Jewish organization to counteract AIPAC. Why do these politicians only think they should talk to rightwing churches and AIPAC? Even within Christianity there's a lot more diversity. I even liked it when the Catholics in 2004 had a forum where they debated and discussed. Of course it wasn't a presidential forum but it was still interesting and educational to watch. Dealing with the current situation with foreign affairs in the mid east I'd love to see a forum with the American-Arab Instutite. How many people here a lone even know who they are? (That's who Mike Gravel talked to)


Fair enough ^_^. I suppose I meant to say more the IDEAL of democracy, or a representative democracy, rather than how the US government really is :(.
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
So you're saying the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution is perverted? What exactly?

Your constitution is not all that perverted - declaring it absolute insofar that those willing to destroy freedoms guaranteed by it are allowed to do their thing is.
 
Your constitution is not all that perverted - declaring it absolute insofar that those willing to destroy freedoms guaranteed by it are allowed to do their thing is.

I didn't even suggest that.

People can SAY whatever they please, and lobby for it. EVERYONE deserves a say in the law, no matter how much I disagree with it. But saying is as far as a lot of things should go - the house & senate should not allow laws to pass through that would infringe upon anyone's rights. But that in no way means people should not be allowed to lobby for their own beliefs.
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
I didn't even suggest that.

People can SAY whatever they please, and lobby for it. EVERYONE deserves a say in the law, no matter how much I disagree with it. But saying is as far as a lot of things should go - the house & senate should not allow laws to pass through that would infringe upon anyone's rights. But that in no way means people should not be allowed to lobby for their own beliefs.

You're saying that they can lobby and have a say in the law, but not put to vote? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

What you do in your own country is your business, but I'd say (and we do) crack down on filth like nazi's. As far as I'm concerned, someone who calls himself an heir to the ideology of Hitler and the like does NOT deserve anything.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Personally, I feel if a politician wants to mention religion, it should be to assure it's continued freedom to practice it. Politics and religion are two things that are best seperated and never combined.
 

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
First, America is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. The only Federal guarantee of popular vote deciding a winner is election to the US Senate and that was by amendment. 48 of the 50 states voted in their state legislatures to award their electoral votes, winner take all, to the candidate for President who wins the popular vote. Maine and Nebraska could split their votes, but IIRC neither has ever done so.

As for 'pandering' to religion, there is not a politician out there who 'cares' about one religion or another. They care about getting elected, so they dress and speak and act in ways that endear themselves to the widest audience. Why do you think very few candidates schedule campaign stops in states with few electoral votes like Delaware or Wyoming?

FGS made an excellent point that
roughly 80% America is Christian. I challenge anyone to find a candidate who wouldn't 'pander' to 80% of the voting population yet would still expect to win.
 

rojse

RF Addict
First, America is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. The only Federal guarantee of popular vote deciding a winner is election to the US Senate and that was by amendment. 48 of the 50 states voted in their state legislatures to award their electoral votes, winner take all, to the candidate for President who wins the popular vote. Maine and Nebraska could split their votes, but IIRC neither has ever done so.

As for 'pandering' to religion, there is not a politician out there who 'cares' about one religion or another. They care about getting elected, so they dress and speak and act in ways that endear themselves to the widest audience. Why do you think very few candidates schedule campaign stops in states with few electoral votes like Delaware or Wyoming?

FGS made an excellent point that roughly 80% America is Christian. I challenge anyone to find a candidate who wouldn't 'pander' to 80% of the voting population yet would still expect to win.

I completely agree with this. I wonder how many Senators in America do not claim to have the Christian faith?
 
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