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Trucker ticketed $500 for poor English

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
No, that would be a "yes." Just because you managed to avoid directly violating the letter of forum rules doesn't mean you weren't violating the spirit.
 

Laughing Man

1337 |-|4(|<3R
That would be a "no".

This whole thing about the trucker being fined is precisely WHY we don't need an official language. It's far too open to abuse like this.

Any language can be abused.

So if we were to not have an official language and anybody here would not have to learn English to become a citizen then can you tell us how you would solve such problems as road signs, schools, government agencies having to deal with anybody speaking any language or even employees of government agencies or teachers speaking different languages?
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
IF in 10-20 years ANY language is what is spoken by a majority and it is what infrastructure&#8217;s language is then I would have to learn that new language to function properly in this society. I must ask you what you have against an official language. Do you feel that every country should just do away with their official languages? Then what happens to all the street signs, do we have to make them all enormous to fit as many different languages as possible? Should everybody learn the roughly 6500 spoken languages, and the hundreds of written languages? This is highly impractical, most countries have an official language to avoid these obvious problems. Almost every country in the world makes it so you must learn their common language to become a citizen. It is a matter of making sure that everything moves smoothly in that country.

Because if you have an official language you will have no other choices for people who don't know English for whatever purpose such as on official documents like the driving manual and ballots etc.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who shares these thoughts. For a moment there I thought I was boarding the bigot boat. :D

I mean, when my church sends out missionaries to foreign nations, they take classes to learn their language so that they can effectively communicate with those in the country. To me that seems like common sense. What other option is there? Forcing the rest of the country to learn english to make it easier for you? Shouldn't you be expected to make a bit of a sacrifice and relinquish a few conveniences for your ultimate well being that you are striving for in the said country?

So what about Native American tribes and their sovereignty?
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
I believe:

- People who come to live in the US should do all they can to learn English as well as they can.
- People who come here and learn English should also do all they can to pass their native tongue on to their children.
- People who live in the US and speak English as their native tongue should try to learn other languages.
- When people from one country visit another country, they should take their dictionaries along and try to communicate the best they can in the target language.
-We should appreciate the diversity of language and celebrate knowing multiple languages.
- We should have a common language in the US, that everybody speaks or is trying to speak. I vote for English, since it's the most popular here.

To me, this is common sense. People should do what they should do and we shouldn't have to pass laws on common sense.

So you're going based on popularity correct? What do you do when the popular language is different whether official or not?
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
First of all Arabic is the official language of Iraq and our troops do get training in basic Arabic. Secondly yes you may be able to go for a while without learning the language of the land you are in but you will have an incredibly hard time finding any kind of decent employment, not to mention doing other things such as driving for example (Those one way streets can be dangerous if you go the wrong way down them). Not to mention all of the people you won’t be able to communicate. And in Russia especially it’s going to be bad news if you can’t understand what the police are ordering you to do, they don't play around.:slap:

Unless you're a soldier who is gay and speaks Arabic. Then you're fired.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
I know for a fact that I could make it in Japan speaking only English. People do it all the time as well as Russia, China, Afghanistan and so on. Do you feel our soldiers need to learn any of the Iraqi languages.

That is different from a court mandated "official language".

So you don't need to know signs of things and how to read Japanese? How will you order food or read what street you're on or find the correct rest room? Especially if you happen to be by yourself.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Then by all means work on your communication skills. I can definitely see the need.

That just goes to show how bad your comprehension skills are. It's not my communication skills that need work. I'm doing just fine. you'd know that, if you could get your hasty assumptions and bias out of the way.

But why would we want the government to get into the business of who speaks what. Who cares? If I go someplace and can't communicate, I will find somewhere that I can. That's why we have so many ethnic neighborhoods. Making it legally binding smacks of xenoglossophobia and supremacy issues. It is what it is.

Then the government shouldn't worry about it, and they should stop providing services in other languages.

However, I don't believe I called you or anyone else a bigot in this thread.

:eek: Are you serious? Really? I know you like your willful ignorance, but this is terrible!

Scuba Pete said:
So, we need to introduce grounds for bigotry rather than eliminate them? That just sounds so hinky to me.

Scuba Pete said:
Au contraire! I understand the roots of bigotry incredibly well. It first tries to squelch all diversity. If you don't look like us, speak like us or believe what we do: YOU MUST CHANGE TO MATCH US. It's crystal clear to me and revolting all at the same time.

Scuba Pete said:
Surely you have statistics to support your xenoglossophobia. You wouldn't make this stuff up, now would you?

Scuba Pete said:
I believe the NEED to have an official language is completely based on phobia, both ethnic and language based.

I guess you just want to ignore these quotes, then? Sure, you never said the exact words "You are a bigot", but that's a technicality. You said that our ideas were the roots of bigotry and that we were xenoglossophobic. I'd say that's good enough to effectively end respectful discussion.

LittlePinky82 said:
But than if English is still official and majority of the people know the new popular language and don't use English anymore official government documents are still in English. See the problem?

English, being the official language, would always be the popular language unless we got forcibly taken over. If at some point, it's deemed easier for everyone to switch the official language to something else, then, by all means, do that. Right now, it would be easier for the majority to make English the official language. All I'm trying to do is make things easier on the majority and make the minority put out a little more effort, rather than make it easier for the minority and make the entire majority put out more effort.

The argument is not about English. It's about having an official language. I think we should because it would make a whole lot of things much easier for everyone. Then, once that's established, it's a matter of English being the language of the vast majority, thereby the perfect candidate for that official language. If Spanish or Mandarin was that widespread and popular, then I would vote for that instead.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Sure, you never said the exact words "You are a bigot", but that's a technicality.
What technicality? I either called you a bigot or I didn't. I may have pointed out bigoted notions and statements, but I did not call you or anyone else in this thread a bigot. I am sorry that you and others have a hard time ADMITTING when you are wrong. I suppose I will be blamed for that as well.
I think we should because it would make a whole lot of things much easier for everyone.
How would your life be any "easier" if English should become the "official" language. Sure, it would be easier for xenophobes to discriminate and have the law on their side, but other than pandering to biases and/or phobias, there is simply NO compelling reason for an official language. As I pointed out, it didn't seem to help in either Afghanistan or Iraq. The next step will be to ban certain types of dress here in America.
 

Laughing Man

1337 |-|4(|<3R
Then by all means work on your communication skills. I can definitely see the need.

But why would we want the government to get into the business of who speaks what. Who cares? If I go someplace and can't communicate, I will find somewhere that I can. That's why we have so many ethnic neighborhoods. Making it legally binding smacks of xenoglossophobia and supremacy issues. It is what it is.
\
The reason the government would get into the business of who speaks what is simple, it&#8217;s needed. Our entire society or any society runs through communication, if you can&#8217;t communicate then you can&#8217;t pass along the most basic information. The federal government pays for a lot of the street signs; it has to decide what language to put them in. Federal employees have to be able to communicate with each other to work, if you have a team of people that need to work together and they all speak different languages then your not going to get too much done. And what about the school systems, standardized test must be printed and every public school in America currently has English on its curriculum should we change that? What if you started hiring teachers that spoke just any language and did not know English? I think you would have a hard time in school if your math teacher only spoke German, your science teacher only speaks French, your health teacher only spoke Japanese, and your shop teacher only spoke mandarin. Would you expect somebody to learn all of these languages well enough to get through that school year? And what of the next year when you have an entirely different set of teachers that all speak different languages? What if an individual emigrated from Russia and wanted to be a cop in Washington D.C. how is he going to be understood when giving commands?

I could go on with the problems that could occur all day but the point it that people need to have a common language to communicate and with out communication our society would come to a virtual standstill. So I ask you again Pete how would you solve these kinds of issues?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
What technicality? I either called you a bigot or I didn't. I may have pointed out bigoted notions and statements, but I did not call you or anyone else in this thread a bigot. I am sorry that you and others have a hard time ADMITTING when you are wrong. I suppose I will be blamed for that as well.

The technicality that you called my ideas bigotted. That's the same thing as calling someone a bigot to me, and to a lot of people. You can keep trying to claim you didn't, but it's pretty clear that you did, and your attempts to deny it only make it worse.

How would your life be any "easier" if English should become the "official" language. Sure, it would be easier for xenophobes to discriminate and have the law on their side, but other than pandering to biases and/or phobias, there is simply NO compelling reason for an official language. As I pointed out, it didn't seem to help in either Afghanistan or Iraq. The next step will be to ban certain types of dress here in America.

There are compelling reasons for an official language, whether or not you can see them. It would make my life easier in things like not having to try to explain things to people in a hospital or get information from them, when they don't speak any English. I wouldn't have to spend an hour trying to communicate with construction workers to try to get a job done right, or to get lights turned on in a room. I wouldn't have to pay extra taxes to fund so many different forms and programs in various languages to accommodate people who refuse to learn English. There are many ways it makes life easier for many. It's even worse for some other people, like police and doctors, for example.

Again, no one is trying to take anything away from anyone. You keep using examples like banning certain kinds of dress. It's not even equivalent. They can dress however they want (as long as they are sufficiently covered so that it's not indecent exposure). They can speak how they want. They can eat, drink and play how they want. They can do everything the same as they have been doing. the only thing that should be different is that they should ALSO be able to speak enough English to get them by in situations when they have to do something business related or official.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
This is so silly!
The reason the government would get into the business of who speaks what is simple, it’s needed.
It's intrusive and NOT needed.
Our entire society or any society runs through communication, if you can’t communicate then you can’t pass along the most basic information.
What information aren't you getting RIGHT now?
The federal government pays for a lot of the street signs; it has to decide what language to put them in.
You will find the VAST majority of signage to be produced by local and state governments. There might be money from the Federal Government, but they are done on a local level.
Federal employees have to be able to communicate with each other to work, if you have a team of people that need to work together and they all speak different languages then your not going to get too much done.
Perhaps you have found the secret to governmental inefficiency. But really, we don't have this NOW and they seem to be doing fine.
And what about the school systems, standardized test must be printed and every public school in America currently has English on its curriculum should we change that? What if you started hiring teachers that spoke just any language and did not know English?

//edited for brevity//

I could go on with the problems that could occur all day but the point it that people need to have a common language to communicate and with out communication our society would come to a virtual standstill. So I ask you again Pete how would you solve these kinds of issues?
OMG, the SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

Currently, we DON'T have an official language, we merely have a common one. NONE of these issues have reared their ugly heads so far, and pandering to your XENOGLOSSOPHOBIA will not make them appear!

The only change would be to give bigots the ability to PUNISH people for their diversity. We can see this with the poor trucker already. Is this the type of intolerant society you want us to change in to? Quelle domage!
 

Laughing Man

1337 |-|4(|<3R
This is so silly! It's intrusive and NOT needed. [/font][/size] What information aren't you getting RIGHT now? [/font][/size] You will find the VAST majority of signage to be produced by local and state governments. There might be money from the Federal Government, but they are done on a local level. [/font][/size] Perhaps you have found the secret to governmental inefficiency. But really, we don't have this NOW and they seem to be doing fine. [/font][/size] OMG, the SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

Currently, we DON'T have an official language, we merely have a common one. NONE of these issues have reared their ugly heads so far, and pandering to your XENOGLOSSOPHOBIA will not make them appear!

The only change would be to give bigots the ability to PUNISH people for their diversity. We can see this with the poor trucker already. Is this the type of intolerant society you want us to change in to? Quelle domage!

Actually we are now starting to see these issues, case in point Miami News, Fort Lauderdale News, Florida News & Weather Channel 7 Fox Miami WSVN-TV - Help Me Howard - No English Manuals

Since John has a daughter in college he decided to pick up a part-time job and needed a commercial driver's license, so he headed to the division of motor vehicles to get the manual.
John Lippincott: "And I said, 'I would like a study manual to get my commercial license,'" and she said, 'Well, we have plenty of them here in Spanish, but we don't have any in English.'"
This was in Deerfield Beach, prime real estate for English-speaking Americans, so John asked the next logical question.
John Lippincott: "And I said, 'When do you expect to have some of them in?' and she said, 'I couldn't begin to tell you.'"
Now, when John called us, we assumed one driver's license office had run out of English language manuals and would soon get them in, so, a few days later, I went to the Deerfield office. No English manuals, and no idea when they would get some.
John Lippincott: "You should have written manuals in English, period. I mean it's fine with the Spanish too, but English should be there."
We also stopped in at the Oakland Park office. Again, no commercial manuals in English.
Producer: "Just Spanish."
We then tried the DMV office in Pompano Beach.
Producer: "Only Spanish. They said they have been out for months."
Three offices, all three out of English language manuals, but there were plenty of manuals in Spanish.

You see Pete this is now becoming an issue. It was not in the past but there has recently been a new trend of immigrants feeling they should NOT have to take the time to learn English because we provide so many services to non-English speakers. It now has gotten to the point where it affects those who are native English speakers. This is just one example that shows it is becoming an issue. If you really need more examples to show that this is an increasing trend I am sure I can pull them up but really is it necessary?

I don’t wish to punish anybody for their diversity, I think it is fantastic if you hold onto your native language but if you wish to live in this country you should ALSO learn English.
 
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