A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
None of these verses are threatened by God being one with three persons...
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why do you say Jesus is God?
- Thread starter Blood Thirsty Blade
- Start date
None of these verses are threatened by God being one with three persons...
Blood Thirsty Blade
Member
Jesus says God is a Spirit, Jesus says Jesus is a man, Paul,(a follower of Jesus), said they changed the image of the uncorruptible God into the image of corruptible man why would he say this if a man was God. That man being Jesus. I dont argue that God is the Father or that Jesus is the Son of God. My argument is on the Being of the two. They are two different beings one is man, the Son of God, the other is God, the Father of the Son of God.
Blood Thirsty Blade
Member
if they are the same being you havent answered my question as to who Jesus was talking to throughout the new testament
Blood Thirsty Blade
Member
1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
I believe most christians nowadays err in believing God is now all in all, but that hasnt happened yet.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
I believe most christians nowadays err in believing God is now all in all, but that hasnt happened yet.
Blood Thirsty Blade
Member
Now if Jesus is God at this point in time, will he subject himself unto himself? If he is already all in all, will he subject himself to himself?
TempleZionBoi-Rom.10:3
New Member
Jesus is not GOD,he is the SON.But Man cannot worship GOD in sin. Sin seperated man from God so he wasn't coming down here(to earth) and save us.So he sent his son. His SON Jesus made the final sacrifice to atone for the sins of man.After he died and rose again. All power was givin unto him( by GOD his father)in Heaven and on Earth.So basically what he says GOES. SO only through love and obidience to the SON can we worship the father.It's not that complicated
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Here ya go... this should clear things right up:
1). The following dissertation concerning the Trinity, as the reader ought to be informed, has been written in order to guard against the sophistries of those who disdain to begin with faith, and are deceived by a crude and perverse love of reason. (Augustin - Trinity 101)
NPNF1-03. On the Holy Trinity; Doctrinal Treatises; Moral Treatises | Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Blood Thirsty Blade
Member
OK, first of all if you don't take a stance on scripture, then where does your concept of Jesus and God come from??? How will you take one thing from the scripture and deny the rest? You were never with Jesus, let alone God, so how were you introduced to them or their nature except through scripture?
Isn't it written in Eph. 2:20 "and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief cornerstone"
Now you live by something if not doctrine then what? Maybe: Matt. 15:9
So if you are a believer, you must stay in doctrine because:2 John 1:9
Its written: 2 Timothy 4:3
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Research the earliest uses of that quote and you will find that they differ. Earlier church leaders didn't quote it that way.
Blood Thirsty Blade
Member
In response to Scott:
John 1:1-2
1.In the Beginning WAS the Word, and the Word WAS with God, and the Word WAS God.
2.The same WAS in the beginning with God.
Word is from the Greek word, Logos, which means the expression of a thought. When you have a thought, you express it by speaking with a word or Logos.
Now your word is with you and it is you because it is the expression of your thought. It is subject unto you. You are not a word, you are more than words, but your word is you. So you see the WORD WAS with God and the WORD WAS God. Just like you have a word and a spirit and that spirit and word is you.
In the beginning God had a thought and expressed it:
Gen.1:3 And God SAID let there be light: and there was light.
^^^^^There is God and his Word^^^^^
Was - First and third person singular past indicative of be
So this is past tense. Now if that was PAST, then what happened to the Word?
John 1:14
And the word WAS made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So then the Word was no longer with God, the Word was no longer God, the Word of God left its Godhood and became a man, in the flesh. Which is written in 2 Cor. 8:9
Which explains Jesus' statement in John 17:5.
Then Jesus ascended into heaven not to sit at his own right hand but at the hand of his Father. He didn't ascend as a God but as a man, because he himself said God is a spirit (John 4:24) and showed that he was ot a spirit in Luke 24:39.
So Jesus is not God, but the Word of God made flesh, and that Holy thing that was made IS (present tense) called the Son of God (Luke 1:35), that Holy thing is not called God!
John 1:1-2
1.In the Beginning WAS the Word, and the Word WAS with God, and the Word WAS God.
2.The same WAS in the beginning with God.
Word is from the Greek word, Logos, which means the expression of a thought. When you have a thought, you express it by speaking with a word or Logos.
Now your word is with you and it is you because it is the expression of your thought. It is subject unto you. You are not a word, you are more than words, but your word is you. So you see the WORD WAS with God and the WORD WAS God. Just like you have a word and a spirit and that spirit and word is you.
In the beginning God had a thought and expressed it:
Gen.1:3 And God SAID let there be light: and there was light.
^^^^^There is God and his Word^^^^^
Was - First and third person singular past indicative of be
So this is past tense. Now if that was PAST, then what happened to the Word?
John 1:14
And the word WAS made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So then the Word was no longer with God, the Word was no longer God, the Word of God left its Godhood and became a man, in the flesh. Which is written in 2 Cor. 8:9
Which explains Jesus' statement in John 17:5.
Then Jesus ascended into heaven not to sit at his own right hand but at the hand of his Father. He didn't ascend as a God but as a man, because he himself said God is a spirit (John 4:24) and showed that he was ot a spirit in Luke 24:39.
So Jesus is not God, but the Word of God made flesh, and that Holy thing that was made IS (present tense) called the Son of God (Luke 1:35), that Holy thing is not called God!
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Blood Thirsty Blade
Member
"In the name of" and "Name" is different, your focus is on "Name" when Jesus said "In the name of".
If you look "In the name of " up, you'll find it is an "idiom" which means:
A speech form or an expression of a given language that is peculiar to itself grammatically or cannot be understood from the individual meanings of its elements, as in keep tabs on.
Now back to "In the name of", this means "Authority", "Power". Look up name in reference to that scripture in the greek language, which the New Testament was written in. It will say: onoma on'-om-ah from a presumed derivative of the base of 1097 (compare 3685); a "name" (literally or figuratively) (authority, character)
So Jesus was saying to baptize in the "Authority" or "Power" of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. And right before that what did he say.....
Matt. 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All POWER is given unto ME in heaven and in earth.
So you see he was telling them to baptize in his name which the apostles understood, because you can see how they baptized in Acts 2:38, 8:16, 19:5
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I's not that I don't agree with you. I do...in a sense.....and I'm no trinitarian so I don't believe their bible says Yeshua is God. Matthew 28:19, these days, isn't even quoted by trinitarians as a proof text to support their belief he is God. That particular verse, Matt 28:19, may not have even read the same way it reads today in the bible. Others back in the day were not quoting it that way. So you you are correct that the disciples would baptize in his name only;
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]According to F.C. Conybeare, "Eusebius cites this text again and again in his works written between 300 and 336, namely in his long commentaries on the Psalms, on Isaiah, his Demonstratio Evangelica, his Theophany ...in his famous history of the Church, and in his panegyric of the emperor Constantine. I have, after a moderate search in these works of Eusebius, found eighteen citations of Matthew xxviii. 19, and always in the following form: "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you." I have collected all these passages except one which is in a catena published by Mai in a German magazine, the Zeitschrift fur die neutestamentliche Wissenschaft, edited by Erwin Preuschen in Darmstadt in 1901. And Eusebius is not content merely to cite the verse in this form, but he more than once comments on it in such a way as to show how much he set store by the words "in my name." Thus in his Demonstratio Evangelica he writes thus (col. 240, p. 136):
"For he (i.e. Jesus Christ) did not enjoin them 'to make disciples of all nations' simply and without qualification, but with the essential addition 'in his name.' For so great was the virtue attached to his appellation that the Apostle says, God bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth. It was right therefore that he should emphasize the virtue of the power residing in his name but hidden from the many, and therefore say to his Apostles, Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name."
[/FONT]
Muffled
Jesus in me
Last edited:
Muffled
Jesus in me
I don't go there. Did anyone bother to tell BTB that we have argued these Biblical points before and that I have not been convinced by your arguments.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Although you have presented a trinity (a group of three things) they are not three persons because the mother and her womb belong to the same person unless the child is adopted and then the word mother has a different meaning: that of nurturer.
