Christians: Where do you draw the line?

[uss_bigd]

You were responding to me and at the crux of this was my use of the word praxis. You may want to rethink your response once you see what it means. I'll reply then!

praxis mean .practice, as distinguished from theory; application or use, as of knowledge or skills. 2.convention, habit, or custom. 3.a set of examples for practice.

I do not wish to rethink my response .... and here they are again for your convenience

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The Gospel is repeated many, many times. Jesus came and lived as a man. He was crucified and was risen on the third day. He gave us his Spirit and then ascended into Heaven where he intercedes for us on a daily basis.

You are referring to the apostles. we don't his get the spirit right away.

Quote:
That's the condensed version. But... THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS; THE GOSPEL. Don't add to it, and don't even think about taking away from it! Actually, go read that passage again. You missed the point. Christ is a title. Jesus was God in human form and became our Christ: the Anointed One.

did i? are you saying the epistles of paul and other apostles are not gospels? where did you get your idea of christs anyway? apart from the bible?

Quote:
Great verse. Now read what you DIDN'T underline: UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED! What were Jesus' last words on the cross? "It is Finished!" What was finished? All that Jesus came to do! Wooooo Hooooooo.

So is judgement day done?

 

[sojourner]

I am FREE, FREE I tell you. I don't need no steenkeeng formal (or informal) praxis.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

A little of that Pharisaical yeast will leaven the entire batch of dough! DON'T BUY IN TO LEGALISM.

And speaking of Pharisaical Legalism:

No. Paul required of them ONE THING: don't abandon or change the GOSPEL. I asked you earlier what the Gospel consisted of, but you ignored the request. THAT is the only thing that we can not change.

No where do the scriptures claim to be the word of God (they only claim to be INSPIRED by God: not written by God). In a like manner, they never ever claim to be without error. Please cite chapter and verse should you find a place where they say differently.

The Scriptures do claim that Jesus is the Word of God (John 1), and there are times where the prophets say that they are speaking the Word of God.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. We participate in the one baptism of Christ when we are baptized. It is our opportunity to join with Christ (as the scriptures say) in his death and resurrection. Additionally, it is our opportunity to join with all others who have participated in that event. by "formal," I meant that it is meet and right that there should be some sort of structure -- a ceremony, whereby the community may affirm with the baptismal candidate this step of faith. That's the way the community supports and nurtures the candidate in that step. I am not in any way saying that it must be done in such-and-such a way, in such-and-such a place, etc. I'm only saying that the community needs to have opportunity to join with the candidate. Since baptism signifys becoming part of the Body of Christ, the Body needs to have some sort of structured way of affirming and confirming that act.

 

[sojourner]

yeah me too, I don't need no stinking formal or informal praxis.

Praxis is a Biclical concept. It means putting your faith into practice. Are you saying that you don't put your faith into practice? Are you saying that you don't follow Biblical concepts?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Praxis is a Biclical concept. It means putting your faith into practice. Are you saying that you don't put your faith into practice? Are you saying that you don't follow Biblical concepts?

You know... when you codify these: put them down in writing then I feel you are just creating more legalism. We just don't need MORE legalism. We are rife with it already.

My praxis then is to RUN like the devil is after me anytime someone tries to push a common praxis in the name of "structure".

Other than LOVE each other, there is just no need for an extra-scriptural (ie formal) praxis.

 

[Scott1]

Other than LOVE each other, there is just no need for an extra-scriptural (ie formal) praxis.

Now THAT is my kind of orthopraxy. :yes:

 

[Dunemeister]

Now THAT is my kind of orthopraxy. :yes:

Anyone know where I can find a good orthopractor?

 

[ayani]

Obviously Christ is the root word for the word Christian. Therefore, any believer of Christ's divinity and follower of his teachings (as best they understand them) is Christian.

yes, i'd agree. Jesus was called "God's Son". many believe that to mean he was literally God's son, others believe the idea to be symbolic. but to call upon him and follow his teachings and surrender to him. i think that's it.

 

[Dunemeister]

yes, i'd agree. Jesus was called "God's Son". many believe that to mean he was literally God's son, others believe the idea to be symbolic. but to call upon him and follow his teachings and surrender to him. i think that's it.

How do you fill in the details of his teachings and what it means to surrender?

 

[sojourner]

Anyone know where I can find a good orthopractor?

Jesus, the Great Physician...

 

[sojourner]

You know... when you codify these: put them down in writing then I feel you are just creating more legalism. We just don't need MORE legalism. We are rife with it already.

My praxis then is to RUN like the devil is after me anytime someone tries to push a common praxis in the name of "structure".

Other than LOVE each other, there is just no need for an extra-scriptural (ie formal) praxis.

Except that, in the sense that we are a community of faith, it behooves us to gather in one place at one time and do some things together in common, so that we can profess our one faith in the one God, and what that means for us. Some structure is necessary in order to form the community -- not for the sake of the structure, itself.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Except that, in the sense that we are a community of faith, it behooves us to gather in one place at one time and do some things together in common, so that we can profess our one faith in the one God, and what that means for us. Some structure is necessary in order to form the community -- not for the sake of the structure, itself.

As long as we do this INDIVIDUALLY I don't see a problem. It's when we try to make rules out of suggestions or faded traditions that we run into legalizing our freedom. It's simply counterproductive for Christians to do this.

 

[sojourner]

As long as we do this INDIVIDUALLY I don't see a problem. It's when we try to make rules out of suggestions or faded traditions that we run into legalizing our freedom. It's simply counterproductive for Christians to do this.

Remember, structure does not necessarily imply conformity.

 

[Dunemeister]

As long as we do this INDIVIDUALLY I don't see a problem. It's when we try to make rules out of suggestions or faded traditions that we run into legalizing our freedom. It's simply counterproductive for Christians to do this.

This obsession with legalism worries me. Luther had his issues with the Roman Catholic Church involving what he called legalism. And Luther was correct about the legalistic abuses of the 16th century church. Unfortunately, Luther's heirs took legalism to extremes and started to see legalism wherever there was anything that appeared to be a standard for Christian life. But it is not legalistic to affirm that Christians are responsible for acting in conformity to a certain moral standard. For example, insisting that it is not legitimate for a married Christian man to bed another woman is not legalistic. It's good ethics.

Nor is it legalistic to formalize our praxis. For example, the church has formalized what it means to enter into the Christian community and to participate/identify with the Christian community. The former action is formalized via baptism, which involves a certain ceremony where the community welcomes the new believer and the new believer formally renounces his old ways and agrees to uphold the beliefs and ethics of the community to which he or she is attaching herself. The latter action is communion. By taking community, the person participates in the life of Christ along with his fellow believers. None of this is legalism in any sense.

 

[Scuba Pete]

This obsession with legalism worries me.

I am not obsessed with legalism, I avoid it like the plague!

 

[Katzpur]

I am not obsessed with legalism, I avoid it like the plague!

To me, that sounds like kind of an obsession.

 

[Scuba Pete]

To me, that sounds like kind of an obsession.

I am only obsessed with learning how to love everyone.

 

[Katzpur]

I am only obsessed with learning how to love everyone.

And with avoiding legalism like the plague.

 

[Scuba Pete]

And with avoiding legalism like the plague.

You don't think it's important to resist Satan? Is not trying to avoid sin a personal thing for you, or is this an LDS concept?

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. 2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. NIV

Or maybe, you don't see legalism as a sin?

I Corinthians 8:1 We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God. NIV

 

[sojourner]

You don't think it's important to resist Satan? Is not trying to avoid sin a personal thing for you, or is this an LDS concept?

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. 2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. NIV

Or maybe, you don't see legalism as a sin?

I Corinthians 8:1 We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God. NIV

Except that one can become so myopic in "resisting Satan" that one forgets to focus the vision on God.

 

[Dunemeister]

I am only obsessed with learning how to love everyone.

Part of that learning involves the ritual and structure that you seem to disparage in your posts. Organized, structured, and ritualized worship, baptism, communion, and confession (among other disciplines) help us to learn the craft of forgiveness (and being forgiven) that is at the heart of Christian love.