U.S. Muslims and Mormons share deepening ties

[kai]

you seem to know nothing of islam and have clearly never read the quran, so how can you make such a claim and have such an opinion?
there is nothing radically different about their belief systems as it pertains to everyday life.
i do not see how muslims and mormons could not get along because they are so similar in values.
i guess some people prefer to divide and others prefer to unite.


peace

ha ha thats the funniest thing i have heard all day well done to you sir,

 

[Comprehend]

Give me a hint as to what the rest of the post might be? This is already eight pages of posts.

If it refers to the notion that Joseph Smith was revealing anything that was not under the authority of Jesus Christ, Abraham, Moses or the other prophets of the old and new testament then please point out some.

Regards,
Scott

There is only one post I could have possiby been referring to.

 

[YmirGF]

ha ha thats the funniest thing i have heard all day well done to you sir,

It comes with little surprise that I was also amused by his/her/its comments, as well. Oy ve, eh? Let's just ignore the whole of Sharia Law and focus on the things we have in common. Let's just ignore the fact that Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] was the final prophet and bake some lovely cookies for the children. Let's just... forget...

 

[YmirGF]

There is only one post I could have possiby been referring to.

You might want to spell it out for him, he is getting a bit, you know, old... (Quoteth the post number for the aged to mire in awhile, m'lord.)

 

[TashaN]

It comes with little surprise that I was also amused by his/her/its comments, as well. Oy ve, eh? Let's just ignore the whole of Sharia Law and focus on the things we have in common. Let's just ignore the fact that Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] was the final prophet and bake some lovely cookies for the children. Let's just... forget...

So in order for me to have a peaceful conversation or relationship with you i have to fully accept your *visions* and you have to fully accept my religion?

That's really ridiculous, you better find something else to play with and laugh at.

 

[YmirGF]

So in order for me to have a peaceful conversation or relationship with you i have to fully accept your *visions* and you have to fully accept my religion?

That's really ridiculous, you better find something else to play with and laugh at.

Come now, Abu, if these dialogues stick to common areas while blithely ignoring the rather important differences, then these dialogues will remain highly superficial. Islam does not even allow for the possibility of a Joseph Smith so, you must forgive me if I see some rather self-serving alterior motives behind this.

 

[Popeyesays]

Come now, Abu, if these dialogues stick to common areas while blithely ignoring the rather important differences, then these dialogues will remain highly superficial. Islam does not even allow for the possibility of a Joseph Smith so, you must forgive me if I see some rather self-serving alterior motives behind this.

Generally one sees the qualities in others which best describe one's own negative attributes.

In brief seeking that which unifies mankind is moral behavior. Seeking that which promotes divisiveness and fractiousness is immoral.

One can, of course be ignorant of one's own immorality or morality, of course. So please don't take it personally.

If a group of people can be grought together out of a desire for amity and accord that is GOOD. One should leave one's ulterior motives at the door.

Regards,

Scott

 

[YmirGF]

Generally one sees the qualities in others which best describe one's own negative attributes.

On this I would agree, in general, but I am unsure how this relates to what I am saying. Personally, I find it quite intriquing that these Muslims would target Mormons. It is a very interesting choice to do an outreach to.

In brief seeking that which unifies mankind is moral behavior. Seeking that which promotes divisiveness and fractiousness is immoral.

Ah, so anything that goes against the promotion of the Lemming Syndrome is immoral. Now that IS a revelation. Thanks, Scott. Why is it that we are all supposed to be united again?

One can, of course be ignorant of one's own immorality or morality, of course. So please don't take it personally.

I don't take much on RF personally, Scott and am generally aghast when I come across people who do. Listen up, Scott, your sense of "morality" is not my sense of morality. Given that morality is an inherent part of our being I rather doubt that a person can truly be unaware that they are being immoral. For example, the pedofile must know, instinctively that what they are doing is wrong, but are perhaps unable to stop the compulsion to act on their feelings. That is not the same as being blithely unaware. In religious terms, to an extent, everyone is immoral, except for a hallowed few, so, please, spare me the object lesson on morality, Scott.

If a group of people can be grought together out of a desire for amity and accord that is GOOD. One should leave one's ulterior motives at the door.

I am all for people keeping an open mind, Scott, but one should not have that opening too large, lest their brain rolls out. I would say that if these discussions and overtures were made in full awareness of the very clear differences, then they may well be fruitful. If those differences are just ignored or swept under the rug then there is little point bothering, as the honesty of said encounters is then suspect.

 

[Popeyesays]

Having respect for the differences should not negate the ability to work together with respect for one another's beliefs. I work on interfaith organizations which include many belief systems, we can do so without losing sight of our differences.

Foundations of World Unity, Abdu'l Baha p. 92:

"Most regrettable of all is the state of difference and divergence we have created between each other in the name of religion imagining that a paramount duty in our religious belief is that of alienation and estrangement, that we should shun each other and consider each other contaminated with error and infidelity. In reality the foundations of the divine religions are one and the same. The differences which have arisen between us are due to blind imitations of dogmatic beliefs and adherence to ancestral forms of worship. His Holiness Abraham was the founder of reality. His Holiness Moses, His Holiness Christ, His Holiness Mohammed were the manifestations of reality. His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh was the glory of reality. "

Regards,
Scott

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Just as certainly as men share their religious beliefs, they create a religious group of some sort which eventually creates common goals. Someday religionists will get together and actually effect co-operation on the basis of unity of ideals and purposes rather than attempting to do so on the basis of psychological opinions and theological beliefs. Goals rather than creeds should unify religionists. Since true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience, it is inevitable that each individual religionist must have his own and personal interpretation of the realization of that spiritual experience. Let the term "faith" stand for the individual's relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. "Have you faith? Then have it to yourself."

From The URANTIA Book, Pg. 1091

 

[TashaN]

Come now, Abu, if these dialogues stick to common areas while blithely ignoring the rather important differences, then these dialogues will remain highly superficial. Islam does not even allow for the possibility of a Joseph Smith so, you must forgive me if I see some rather self-serving alterior motives behind this.

What kind of motives? to convert the other *entire* group? lol Oh please!

I know what you are trying to do. You just enjoy seeing people from different faiths fight, and when you see them live in harmony, your defense will fall and your arguments against them will fail to hold water. Just for the record, the LDS belief is one of the most faiths i noticed that we muslims have in common with, and i don't even live in America. How about those who live in America seeing that people have put them at the same corner to enjoy kicking them at. I also noticed that they are amongst the most devout and humble people i ever met on the internet since i can't meet you guys in real life.

Find something else to play with, Paul.

 

[Katzpur]

Come now, Abu, if these dialogues stick to common areas while blithely ignoring the rather important differences, then these dialogues will remain highly superficial. Islam does not even allow for the possibility of a Joseph Smith so, you must forgive me if I see some rather self-serving alterior motives behind this.

Paul, what exactly do you see these self-serving motives as being? And are the LDS guilty of the same motives or just the Muslims?

 

[YmirGF]

What kind of motives?

My guess is that part of it would be to repair the horrendous image problem that Muslim, in general, have. There may be nothing sinister in that, but I do find it fascinating that they would focus on Mormon's who are the Black sheep in the Christian family. Mutual estrangement, perhaps? It wouldn't be quite so curious if say, they had reached out to Anglican Christians, Evangelical Christians or Catholics as they are more "main stream"

to convert the other *entire* group? lol Oh please!

I can understand why you are rolling your eyes at your own suggestion. I haven't said that, now, have I? I think it would be rather unlikely that Muslims would be able to convert Mormons however.

I know what you are trying to do.

I would suggest that you haven't the faintest idea "what I am trying to do", my dear friend.

You just enjoy seeing people from different faiths fight,

Um, now you are just being silly.

and when you see them live in harmony, your defense will fall and your arguments against them will fail to hold water.

Having superficial relationships between religions isn't all that impressive Abu.

Just for the record, the LDS belief is one of the most faiths i noticed that we muslims have in common with, and i don't even live in America. How about those who live in America seeing that people have put them at the same corner to enjoy kicking them at.

I think I understand you although your wording is a bit shoddy. C'mon, Abu, basically all religions have the same or similar moral ethics, so that is a no-brainer. What I am saying is that for a deeper, truly meaningful interaction, the differences should be faced head on... to get them out of the way... THEN, if anyone is REALLY interested in hanging out with each other, I think that could be the beginning of real friendships and meaningful interactions. Ignoring the differences, ignores what makes each unique.

I also noticed that they are amongst the most devout and humble people i ever met on the internet since i can't meet you guys in real life.

Yes, they are, and I am very fond on them. I am just concerned that they are being used. Sue me.

Find something else to play with, Paul.

I am not playing, Abu... I am perfectly serious. Nice to see you are thinking so deeply, about what I am saying, that you can discern that I am merely "toying" with people.

 

[YmirGF]

Paul, what exactly do you see these self-serving motives as being?

Hiya Kathryn, I covered one concern in my response to Abu. In short, I am concerned that the outreach by the American Muslims is simply a attempt the shore up the horrendous "image problem" that Islam currently enjoys.

And are the LDS guilty of the same motives or just the Muslims?

Heavens, no. The last time I checked Mormon's had a pretty wholesome "apple pie" image. My thinking is that American Muslims wish to garner some of that for themselves. "Apple pie" by association, if you will.

 

[Popeyesays]

Paul,

I have a few questions:

1) Is it a crime for American Muslim communities to seek to repair the reputation that Islam has amongst the more knee-jerk American opinion?

2) Why is it wrong for two religious communities to seek ways to act advantageously together while recognizing the differences they have as well as the similarities?

3) Why do two religious organizations have to agree on every little thing to seek to do good together?

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

Paul,

I have a few questions:

1) Is it a crime for American Muslim communities to seek to repair the reputation that Islam has amongst the more knee-jerk American opinion?
of course its not a crime but would be better served from within showing us adifferent peacefull face of Islam

2) Why is it wrong for two religious communities to seek ways to act advantageously together while recognizing the differences they have as well as the similarities? that depends on the advantages and the motives

3) Why do two religious organizations have to agree on every little thing to seek to do good together?
Its not the little things we are talking about is it Scott! oh i forgot most of the Christian beleif system is a quirk to you anyway
Regards,
Scott

well as none of us are involved in this meeting of minds its pointless raking it over , it will run its course and maybe Muslims and Mormons will do something constructve together that may help others as much as it helps themselves.

 

[YmirGF]

1) Is it a crime for American Muslim communities to seek to repair the reputation that Islam has amongst the more knee-jerk American opinion?

*sigh* Scott the "knee-jerk" American opinion as you so eloquently put it is hardly an American sentiment alone. I would go so far as to say that people on your side of the fence, who have deep reverence and respect for Islam, but curiously are not Muslims, so one wonders just how deep that respect actually goes, are in a rather distinct minority.

Given the fact that a group of American Islamic "scholars" recently met with the Dalai Lama to seek guidence on how they could correct their "image problem" is indicative of the fact that this is not just my perception. From my side of the fence, I am simply making observations. Would you have that become a indictable offense against political correctness?

2) Why is it wrong for two religious communities to seek ways to act advantageously together while recognizing the differences they have as well as the similarities?

Who said it is wrong? Those are your words, Scott. As you said, yourself, and as I said to Abu, if the differneces are met HEAD ON, if anyone is left with a lasting desire to continue discussions, THEN some interesting progress could be made. Sweeping those differences under the rug in the spirit of mutual hugs is, in my view, merely window dressing.

3) Why do two religious organizations have to agree on every little thing to seek to do good together?

Who said they did? I am saying that it is like visiting a lawyer and writing a contract, it is only reasonable to read the fine print before commiting oneself to the contract. My thinking is that as long as the MAJOR, and I mean, MAJOR differences are ignored the result will remain a very superficial relationship. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, I suppose, but it does make one wonder why they would bother in the first place. Again, I am just concerned that the Mormon's are being used and may be too nice a group of people to recognize the fact. The responses in this thread as well as in PM's from several Mormons simply underscores what I am saying.

 

[OutOfTime]

I think it's great. These are two of the only religions that follow rules now. They have a set of guidelines and people in the religion are expected to do what's written in the religion (not everyone does obviously but you know what I mean).

I mean the rest of us just go to church once a week and think that's it but these two religions are a bit more strict I guess. I'm pretty sure they both have the same fundamentals too. It might be a lost cause cos the world will become really ammoral and there will be a bigger lack of religion soon but if we were all like mormons or muslims then it honestly would be a better place. YOu can say that atheists are better people than religious followers and that's true. But in the future...a lack of religions causes societies rules to be lost. And this might sound a bit radical but it makes it easier for certain what I'd call evil/occultic religions to be indoctrinated to people (this is being done to kids of today with brainwashing).

 

[budhabee]

I think our ancestors are all alive. Very much so. I'm sure they are much amused.

 

[Popeyesays]

Paul,

I didn't quote your post and reply in particular because all you did was evade the questions.

It's getting so all you ever do is evade questions.

By the way, from Wikipedia article(Lemming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ):

"Myths and misconceptions
Misconceptions about lemmings go back many centuries. In the 1530s, the geographer Zeigler of Strasbourg proposed the theory that the creatures fell out of the sky during stormy weather (also featured in the folklore of the Inupiat/Yupik at Norton Sound), and then died suddenly when the grass grew in spring.[4] This was refuted by the natural historian Ole Worm, who first published dissections of a lemming, and showed that lemmings are anatomically similar to most other rodents.
While many people believe that lemmings commit mass suicide when they migrate, this is not the case. Driven by strong biological urges, they will migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can and do swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat[5]. On occasion, and particularly in the case of the Norway lemmings in Scandinavia, large migrating groups will reach a cliff overlooking the ocean. They will stop until the urge to press on causes them to jump off the cliff and start swimming, sometimes to exhaustion and death. Lemmings are also often pushed into the sea as more and more lemmings arrive at the shore. [6]
The myth of lemming mass suicide is long-standing and has been popularized by a number of factors. In 1955, Carl Barks drew an Uncle Scrooge adventure comic with the title: The Lemming with the Locket. This comic, which was inspired by a 1954 National Geographic article, showed massive numbers of lemmings jumping over Norwegian cliffs.[7]. The suicide myth was further propagated by Walt Disney documentary White Wilderness in 1958 which includes footage of lemmings migrating and running head-long over a ledge. An investigation in 1983 by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's Brian Vallee, showed that the Disney film makers faked the entire sequence using imported lemmings (bought from Inuit children), a snow covered turntable on which a few dozen lemmings were forced to run, and literally throwing lemmings into the sea to show the alleged suicides.[8] This myth is also witnessed in a German film - The Little Polar Bear (Lars, the polar bear)--in which a group of despondent lemmings are frequently jumping off various ledges.[9]
Due to their association with this odd behaviour, lemming suicide is a frequently-used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences. This is the theme of the video game Lemmings, where the player attempts to save the mindlessly marching rodents from walking to their deaths."

Regards,
Scott