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Do differences in practices of faith mean we follow the same Jesus Christ?

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
Where in the Bible are we told that it is the only source of God's word?.


1 Corinthians 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men

There isn't suppose to be anybody following the apostles. The books that they wrote was suppose to reach all over the world and it did. christ has an unchangeable priesthood the book of hebrews stated. that is why paul said:

1 Corinthians 4:6

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another

You haven't read the Book of Mormon. How do you know what it teaches? The gospel according to Matthew is not identical to the gospel according to Mark, Luke or John. They have much in common but each one mentions things the other doesn't. Do you see them as contradicting each other? The book of Job is not about the same people as the book of Exodus. Does that make one of them true and the other one false?


I will agree that there could be similarities. But isn't true that the fundamentalist CLDS was once one and the same with the mormon church, and Joseph Smith the founder had several wives and the CLDS original doctrine condoned to polygamy?

That Violated 1 tim 3:2.



I agree. Would you mind explaining what you believe the word "contradict" to mean?

Would you mind giving us some examples?

contradicting = like black and white, concepts of opposite meaning.

Examples will include;

Catholics: you can eat whatever you want
Adventist: you cant eat pork

Even without the bible these two denominations cannot possibly and sensibly follow the same Christ.

what does the bible truelly states?

Matthew 24:24

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."


Again, i maintain my stance, no one is condemned.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
1 Corinthians 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men

There isn't suppose to be anybody following the apostles.
I completely disagree, but it's late and it's been a long day and there is absolutely nothing I could possibly say to change your mind, so I think this is a point we're just going to have to disagree on.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
[/color]I completely disagree, but it's late and it's been a long day and there is absolutely nothing I could possibly say to change your mind, so I think this is a point we're just going to have to disagree on.


yup, sorry Katspur. that is what is written...
 

Michel07

Active Member
1 Corinthians 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men

There isn't suppose to be anybody following the apostles. The books that they wrote was suppose to reach all over the world and it did. christ has an unchangeable priesthood the book of hebrews stated. that is why paul said:

1 Corinthians 4:6

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another




I will agree that there could be similarities. But isn't true that the fundamentalist CLDS was once one and the same with the mormon church, and Joseph Smith the founder had several wives and the CLDS original doctrine condoned to polygamy?

That Violated 1 tim 3:2.





contradicting = like black and white, concepts of opposite meaning.

Examples will include;

Catholics: you can eat whatever you want
Adventist: you cant eat pork

Even without the bible these two denominations cannot possibly and sensibly follow the same Christ.

what does the bible truelly states?

Matthew 24:24

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."


Again, i maintain my stance, no one is condemned.


Catholics: you can eat whatever you want
Adventist: you cant eat pork


"He was hungry and wished to eat, and while they were making preparations he fell into a trance.
He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by it's four corners. In it were all the earth's four legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. A voice said to him, ' Get up Peter. Slaughter and eat. ' But Peter said, ' Certainly not ,sir. For I have never eaten anything profane and unclean.' The voice spoke to him again, a second time, ' What God has made clean, you are not to call profane.' " Acts 10, 10-15..
There is more to the meaning here as follows in verses 27-28 . But it is also relative to Mark 7, 18-23 when Jesus declared all foods clean but what comes out of the heart as defiling. evil thoughts, theft , murder, greed etc.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
"He was hungry and wished to eat, and while they were making preparations he fell into a trance.
He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by it's four corners. In it were all the earth's four legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. A voice said to him, ' Get up Peter. Slaughter and eat. ' But Peter said, ' Certainly not ,sir. For I have never eaten anything profane and unclean.' The voice spoke to him again, a second time, ' What God has made clean, you are not to call profane.' " Acts 10, 10-15..
There is more to the meaning here as follows in verses 27-28 . But it is also relative to Mark 7, 18-23 when Jesus declared all foods clean but what comes out of the heart as defiling. evil thoughts, theft , murder, greed etc.


I was asked by katzpur to provide examples of contradicting practices and so i gave examples. so, whats your point?
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
yes or no and why.

Not necessarily, I do not think differences in the practice of faith means we follow different Jesus'. I think that means that not everybody understands what we are supposed to be doing. If a group says they are attempting to follow Christ, and it appears they are giving an honest effort, I see no reason to think otherwise. I think MSC's are trying to follow Christ the best way they know how.

Again, the Jesus Christ came from the bible, not from any other reference material.
Hence, in this thread, the authenticity of the bible is not questioned, because it is the only reference where the life and teachings of Christ can be found.

I will ignore the fact that the statement above is a non-sequiter and ask:
How do you figure that the Bible is the "only reference where the life and teachins of Christ can be found"?
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
I believe that everyone gets their idea of Jesus from the New Testament. They just interpret it differently sometimes in big ways and other times in small ways.

I don't think you can say that about *everyone*. LDS' get their idea of Jesus from the OT, NT, BoM, D&C and other modern revelation to God's prophets...

(remember: Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.)

You don't think he has gone back on his word do you? :)
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, I do not think differences in the practice of faith means we follow different Jesus'. I think that means that not everybody understands what we are supposed to be doing. If a group says they are attempting to follow Christ, and it appears they are giving an honest effort, I see no reason to think otherwise. I think MSC's are trying to follow Christ the best way they know how.

Two contradicting doctrines cannot be both true. If i may site an example:

Catholics: you can eat anything you want.
7th day adventis: you cannot eat pork.

even without being biblical these doctrines cannot sensibly come from the same source. hence following different Christs, as forewarned by Matthew(24:24)
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
I will ignore the fact that the statement above is a non-sequiter and ask:
How do you figure that the Bible is the "only reference where the life and teachins of Christ can be found"?

1 Corinthians 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

There shouldn't be anyone who comes next to the apostles, the apostles who lived with Christ. proof?

1 Corinthians 4:6
6And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

It is pretty clear sir, the early christians was instructed not to think of men above that which is writte.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
Two contradicting doctrines cannot be both true. If i may site an example:

Catholics: you can eat anything you want.
7th day adventis: you cannot eat pork.

even without being biblical these doctrines cannot sensibly come from the same source. hence following different Christs, as forewarned by Matthew(24:24)
I'm pretty sure Paul took care of that one for us:



1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Paul took care of that one for us:



1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


What is your point sir?
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
1 Corinthians 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

There shouldn't be anyone who comes next to the apostles, the apostles who lived with Christ. proof?

1 Corinthians 4:6
6And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

It is pretty clear sir, the early christians was instructed not to think of men above that which is writte.

and.... according to those scriptures,

How do you figure that the Bible is the "only reference where the life and teachings of Christ can be found"?

The verses you provided don't even say there is supposed to be an end to Apostles, let alone that the (at that time) non-existant bible was the ONLY reference where the life and teachings of Christ could be found.

Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
yup, sorry Katspur.
No need to apologize.

that is what is written...
No, that's what you're reading into what's written. If you believe there were to be no more apostles other than the original twelve, then why were there? Why were Matthias, James (the brother of Jesus), and Paul all called to the apostleship after Jesus' death? With these three, we have a total of 15 men who were known to be Apostles. Why did Paul say (in Ephesians 4:11-14) that Christ built His church on a foundation of prophets and apostles and that these were to remain in place "until we all come in unity of the faith"? Do you think we're there yet? I don't. In Luke 11:49, Jesus Christ himself said that He would send prophets and apostles. He was speaking in future tense. He had already called the original Twelve. Why would He say that He intended to call others if that was not the case?
 

Michel07

Active Member
I'm pretty sure Paul took care of that one for us:



1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


I really believe this scripture speaks volumes about not being so judgemental and consequently divisive in matters that are between one servant and God and another servant and God.
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
Two contradicting doctrines cannot be both true. If i may site an example:

Catholics: you can eat anything you want.
7th day adventis: you cannot eat pork.

even without being biblical these doctrines cannot sensibly come from the same source. hence following different Christs, as forewarned by Matthew(24:24)

Would you mind explaining how what you wrote addresses my point? :flirt:
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
The verses you provided don't even say there is supposed to be an end to Apostles, let alone that the (at that time) non-existant bible was the ONLY reference where the life and teachings of Christ could be found.

1 Corinthians 4:9
" For I think that God hath set forth us the apostleslast, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men."

What is a synonym for LAST? you can only get out of this if you have your own dictionary sir.

1 Cor 4:6

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

Paul explicitly said "do not think of men aobve that which is written"

Paul also wrote to the Galatians:

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

So, will this mean there are other references to the Gospel of Christ? remember, ""do not think of men aobve that which is written."

Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

He referred to the Prophets he sent, those prophets who were consistent to his righteousness.

Keep in mind the Apostle's ( LASTapostles) warning

  1. Matthew 7:15
    Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
  2. Matthew 24:11
    And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
  3. Matthew 24:24
    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
  4. Mark 13:22
    For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
  5. Luke 6:26
    Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
  6. 2 Peter 2:1
    But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
  7. 1 John 4:1
    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
How can we be guided then? how do we know whats true or false?


1 Cor 4:6

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
What is your point sir?

Everything I needed to know I learned in kindergarten... :rolleyes:


Lunamoth = Gender:
Female.gif
= ma'am

uss_bigd = Gender:
Male.gif
= sir

Gee whiz.
 
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