Christians--Do Evangelicals Believe Everyone Else Going to Hell?

[Katzpur]

Paul said that if you confess Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be (not could be or might be) saved.

If that's the case, then I guess we can simply disregard the following verses:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

There is of course the problem of the referent of "Jesus." I believe Katzpur is right that the LDS believers and traditional Christians believe in a different Jesus. If confessing Jesus is key to salvation (as Paul says), then either traditional Christians or LDS followers are in deep doo-doo.

Excuse me? If anyone on this forum has ever made a point of saying we all believe in the same Jesus, it's me. If I have unintentionally made a statement somewhere which would imply that I believe otherwise, please quote me so that we can set the record straight. I believe in the Jesus Christ spoken of in the Bible and, unless I am mistaken, so are you. We simply interpret certain verses differently and consequently have a different understanding of some of His attributes.

Confessing Jesus is Lord also entails living the life Jesus called us to leave. Again, although there are similarities, the LDS vision and that of traditional Christianity are at variance there, too. Once again, one of these groups is in deep doo-doo.

Believe me, I know that traditional Christianity believes that members of my Church are "in deep doo-doo." We Latter-day Saints, however, are far less condemning of the rest of you. Our understanding is that the vast, vast majority of all humankind will ultimately end up in Heaven, and not in doo-doo of any kind.

 

[uss_bigd]

The real christians are taught this


1 Corinthians 5:13
God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

I hope this helps.

 

[Starfish]

The real christians are taught this


1 Corinthians 5:13
God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

I hope this helps.

What are you saying?

 

[Katzpur]

What are you saying?

Maybe it's "The wicked who fight against Zion shall surely be smitten at last!" I've already put in my application for avenging angel. :yes:

 

[uss_bigd]

What are you saying?

1 Corinthians 5:13
God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

Paul was talking to the christians at Corinth, he told them God judges those outside the church. meaning they are not condemning anyone.

 

[Starfish]

Maybe it's "The wicked who fight against Zion shall surely be smitten at last!" I've already put in my application for avenging angel. :yes:

Now you've got me humming the hymn.

 

[Katzpur]

Now you've got me humming the hymn.

LOL! It's my favorite line.

 

[jonny]

If that's the case, then I guess we can simply disregard the following verses.

How dare you look at the Bible as a whole instead of in parts. Tsk. Tsk.

 

[Katzpur]

How dare you look at the Bible as a whole instead of in parts. Tsk. Tsk.

Sorry, I guess it's a Mormon thing. :yes:

 

[Darkness]

No, humans cannot fully understand the nature of God, but he made sure to tell us everything about him that we do need to know. The Bible is very clear that only those who have faith in Christ will be saved. To say that it is possible that people without faith in Christ might be saved just proves you've never read the Bible. The Bible says over and over that those who believe will be saved, and those who do not believe will be condemned.

How then do you deal with passages such as:

1 Timothy 4:10 (King James Version)
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

 

[Starfish]

Nor did I ever say we believe in the same Christ as traditional Christians. Not in the least. The Christ of that definition totally confuses me, and makes no sense at all.

Some traditional Christians say we are damned; some say we aren't. Who is right? It seems you are allowed to vary in your beliefs between yourselves, but we are not. We do not claim to be one of you; we never have. But Christianity is very diversified, between the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans, etc., etc., till you come to Mormon theology and the variation comes to a screeching halt. Again, we do not claim to be part of traditional Christianity.

But some traditional Christians seem willing to include anyone who recognizes Christ in any vague way, by exposure to him "through creation", will be saved. This is how they explain that God is fair to all people. How can this be? Millions of people throughout history simply had no explosure to the Nicene Christ, and apparently it must be the Nicene Christ exactly, because even our version is not allowed.

So what is their fate?

I'd sure like to have this answered. Anyone?

 

[Izdaari]

What about believers who aren't followers? In other words, is belief alone sufficient or must those who talk the talk also walk the walk?

That's not such a simple question. I think if you really believe it, you will also want to walk the walk. You may fail again and again, but with God's help you'll keep on trying. Justification is by faith alone, but sanctification is a long journey... especially when it's two steps forward, one step back, as it is for most of us.

 

[Katzpur]

That's not such a simple question. I think if you really believe it, you will also want to walk the walk. You may fail again and again, but with God's help you'll keep on trying. Justification is by faith alone, but sanctification is a long journey... especially when it's two steps forward, one step back, as it is for most of us.

I can't argue with a word of that. It's exactly how I would have said it -- if I'd thought to express it so well.

 

[Dunemeister]

I'd sure like to have this answered. Anyone?

All persons, including those who follow Jesus, will be judged on the quality of the life lived. Persons who have never heard of Jesus will be judged based on what they do in fact know (or should have known but wilfully rejected). Christians will be judged by a higher standard, but they need not fear the judgment because Christ has forgiven their sin.

 

[Dunemeister]

If that's the case, then I guess we can simply disregard the following verses:

Not at all. Confessing Jesus as Lord implies submission to him as Lord. Obeying the commands is part and parcel of the confession. You can't believe in Jesus yet live like the devil and expect a good reception from God on the Day of Judgment. Quite the contrary, you can probably expect to hear "I never knew you. Away from me you evildoer."

 

[Starfish]

All persons, including those who follow Jesus, will be judged on the quality of the life lived. Persons who have never heard of Jesus will be judged based on what they do in fact know (or should have known but wilfully rejected). Christians will be judged by a higher standard, but they need not fear the judgment because Christ has forgiven their sin.

So where does that put me? I have heard of Christ and fully expect to be judged according to what I "do in fact know".
Am I a Christian, in YOUR opinion? Some Christians say I am, some say I'm not. What am I? Who is right?

 

[Katzpur]

Am I a Christian, in YOUR opinion? Some Christians say I am, some say I'm not. What am I? Who is right?

I'm a Christian and I say you are! And I'm right!!!!!

 

[Katzpur]

Not at all. Confessing Jesus as Lord implies submission to him as Lord. Obeying the commands is part and parcel of the confession. You can't believe in Jesus yet live like the devil and expect a good reception from God on the Day of Judgment. Quite the contrary, you can probably expect to hear "I never knew you. Away from me you evildoer."

Okay, I'm good with that.

 

[lunamoth]

I'm a Christian and I say you are! And I'm right!!!!!

That's the spirit.

 

[Starfish]

I'm a Christian and I say you are! And I'm right!!!!!

Yea, but you don't count--cause you're a Mormon!