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If you make over 75,000 a year, are you rich?

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
Starfish, I believe the number of people who improve their situation is actually between 1 and 2%. I think someone posted the number and source earlier in this (now 14 page) thread.

I don't buy it. I read the post. The numbers may be true, but it need not be true for you. Too many have defied the odds. We need to hear more of the success stories, rather than the reasons to not try.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Others have done it. Usually, with immigrants, it's the parents who struggle with the language, not the kids.

That's what I was getting at. To a certain degree, parents can make up for bad teaching in school by spending time working with their kids, but new immigrant parents often can't provide that sort of support when there's a language barrier between them and the material their kids are learning. The kids end up losing out on part of their support through no fault of their own.

When there's no parent at home with the kids, then who does this? So many of the choices you make in your youth will affect generations. It affects the life you give your kids, and what they then pass on to their kids.

It takes diligence, sacrifice, and committment. We need to teach our kids this, with no excuses. No early sex, no drugs, no extravegances creating debt. The parents have GOT to set the example. (Sorry--this is one of my passions.)
Again, that's what I'm getting at. A child can't pick their parents. If a parent doesn't make those sorts of choices for their kids, doesn't instill proper values in them, and doesn't teach them all the things you mention, then the child will suffer, despite never having a say in these decisions that have had a major impact on the foundation on which the rest of their life will be built on.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
I don't buy it. I read the post. The numbers may be true, but it need not be true for you. Too many have defied the odds. We need to hear more of the success stories, rather than the reasons to not try.


Well, I'll take continually demonstratable hard numbers over your gut feeling that you "don't buy it."
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
That's what I was getting at. To a certain degree, parents can make up for bad teaching in school by spending time working with their kids, but new immigrant parents often can't provide that sort of support when there's a language barrier between them and the material their kids are learning. The kids end up losing out on part of their support through no fault of their own.


Again, that's what I'm getting at. A child can't pick their parents. If a parent doesn't make those sorts of choices for their kids, doesn't instill proper values in them, and doesn't teach them all the things you mention, then the child will suffer, despite never having a say in these decisions that have had a major impact on the foundation on which the rest of their life will be built on.

You're right, and as I said several times, there are exceptions.
Parents have got to get their act together as much as possible. But some kids have made it inspite of their parents. I did my schooling and college with very little parental involvement--we were one of those families with an excuse.
 

KasMage

Member
I don't think we should separate people into just three different groups. If you talk about taxes, you can't just call $75,000 rich and group them up with people who make millions.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I don't think we should separate people into just three different groups. If you talk about taxes, you can't just call $75,000 rich and group them up with people who make millions.

True, but there are degrees of "rich". Those who have many millions are very, very rich. It's like being good-looking. I've seen plenty of girls who were good-looking but nowhere in the same vicinity as someone like Angelina Jolie. That doesn't mean they're not good-looking, it just means some others take it to a higher degree.
 

KasMage

Member
Point well made. That being said though, I don't really think of the $75,000 as rich. Obviously it's not poor, and it's above the average guy, but it's not exactly mansion income. That's not to say that everybody who makes $75,000 should be getting constant, direct government support, but let's not necessarily completely negate them from the equation. As stated in many other posts, it depends on the situation. If you're raising six kids and live in an expensive city, you might need a little help to get all of your kids health care. It seems to be a very subjective matter, but making less than $100,000 shouldn't remove you from the possibility of forms of support from the government. In the end, I think that may very well have been the context of the statement by Edwards.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
If you're raising six kids and live in an expensive city, you might need a little help to get all of your kids health care.

So the government needs to supplement your income because YOU decide to live in an expensive city and have six kids? Basically what you are saying is everyone in this country should be dependant on the government if they choose to live beyond their means.


I would like to address this immigrant issue as well. How many folks do you see that cannot speak the language, raise children who do well in school, stay away from drugs and trouble while their parents save, invest and manage to start their own business?

I see these people who come here recognise the opportunities we all have. The difference is, they have more obstacles but succeed even more than native born folks.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Not everyone has "easy access" to oppurtunity like you're trying to imply. There are a number of different circumstances that can affect the outcome of a person's success/access to oppurtunity.

"easy access"? Excuse me? Are you implying something has to be easy to make an effort for achievement?

That is the trouble with this country, we have to many safety nets. If it where true, "sink or swim", or "work or starve", people would magically find these "easy accesses".
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
"easy access"? Excuse me? Are you implying something has to be easy to make an effort for achievement?

That is the trouble with this country, we have to many safety nets. If it where true, "sink or swim", or "work or starve", people would magically find these "easy accesses".

Rick, there are people who are starving. Their are children going hungry. Many of these victims are not saved by the safety nets you profess exist. Many of them work harder and have less than you and me.

What about them, Rick?

Or do you still deny their existence?

You believe in God without any tangible evidence, but you deny the children crying at night saying, "Mommy, mommy, I'm so hungry."
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Rick, there are people who are starving. Their are children going hungry. Many of these victims are not saved by the safety nets you profess exist. Many of them work harder and have less than you and me.

What about them, Rick?
Who on earth cannot get food stamps, go to a food bank or to a shelter?
Or do you still deny their existence?
Do you have any examples of these people? People who get up and work all day, but are starving?
You believe in God without any tangible evidence, but you deny the children crying at night saying, "Mommy, mommy, I'm so hungry."

Huh? I deny no one. You make America sound like a third world country. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink I guess.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Who on earth cannot get food stamps, go to a food bank or to a shelter?
Food stamps are underfunded. Food banks have limits on how often you can go to them, imx a maximum of once a month. Most shelters have time limits on how long you can stay, generally a month.
 

blackout

Violet.
So the government needs to supplement your income because YOU decide to live in an expensive city and have six kids? Basically what you are saying is everyone in this country should be dependant on the government if they choose to live beyond their means.

Do you know why I had 4 beautiful children we cannot afford?
The Roman Catholic Church, and my adherence to it's irresponsible doctrines.
So my fault? yes. My own stupidity for listening to another for truth.

Still I adore each precious child and wouldn't "take any of them back".

But we are a slowly sinking ship...
and we need to get out of NJ.
But when you have no money...
moves are no easy feat.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
There ARE parts of the U.S. that are pretty 3rd world. It's funny how different the Christians are from their own Christ (that dirty commie) when it comes to aiding the poor and downtrodden.

What on earth do you mean? You have NO IDEA what I have done for the poor and down trodden.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
There ARE parts of the U.S. that are pretty 3rd world.

Where? There are surely some isolated situations where children are neglected by the adults in their lives, and therefore go to bed hungry. But is that because the government isn't giving them enough, or because the adults are being irresponsible? If the assistance received (welfare) is managed correctly, do they still not have enough to eat at the end of the month?

I never received any help from any charity or welfare program when I raised my kids. We also rarely had fast food or ate out. I cooked very cheaply and made most everything from scratch. We also grew a garden and I canned everything I could. I shopped at thrift stores, and sewed. I took in babysitting to pay for dental work because we weren't insured.
There is also the Gleaner program where free food is available if you are willing to gather, harvest or go get it.

I've never heard of shelters turning away children. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm not seeing the 3rd world thing here in our country except in a few exceptional cases that are usually corrected when discovered.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Where? There are surely some isolated situations where children are neglected by the adults in their lives, and therefore go to bed hungry. But is that because the government isn't giving them enough, or because the adults are being irresponsible? If the assistance received (welfare) is managed correctly, do they still not have enough to eat at the end of the month?

I never received any help from any charity or welfare program when I raised my kids. We also rarely had fast food or ate out. I cooked very cheaply and made most everything from scratch. We also grew a garden and I canned everything I could. I shopped at thrift stores, and sewed. I took in babysitting to pay for dental work because we weren't insured.
There is also the Gleaner program where free food is available if you are willing to gather, harvest or go get it.

I've never heard of shelters turning away children. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm not seeing the 3rd world thing here in our country except in a few exceptional cases that are usually corrected when discovered.

Starfish, they act like we don't have a clue when we might have been the people they speak of at some time in our life. :D I still grow a garden and can.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
Starfish, they act like we don't have a clue when we might have been the people they speak of at some time in our life. :D I still grow a garden and can.

:yes: I don't can much anymore, but I STILL can't buy anything if it's not on clearance. Frugality is in my bones.

I remember as a child, when the electricity or water was turned off when the bill hadn't been paid. In junior high, I cut up some old clothes found in a trunk in the basement and used the fabric to make school clothes so I'd have something new to wear to school. Getting a box of used clothes from a cousin was like Christmas.

But I was never hungry.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Where? There are surely some isolated situations where children are neglected by the adults in their lives, and therefore go to bed hungry. But is that because the government isn't giving them enough, or because the adults are being irresponsible? If the assistance received (welfare) is managed correctly, do they still not have enough to eat at the end of the month?

I never received any help from any charity or welfare program when I raised my kids. We also rarely had fast food or ate out. I cooked very cheaply and made most everything from scratch. We also grew a garden and I canned everything I could. I shopped at thrift stores, and sewed. I took in babysitting to pay for dental work because we weren't insured.
There is also the Gleaner program where free food is available if you are willing to gather, harvest or go get it.

I've never heard of shelters turning away children. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm not seeing the 3rd world thing here in our country except in a few exceptional cases that are usually corrected when discovered.

You realize that you are lucky?

Not everybody has those, "Oh-so-wonderful-skills," of yours. I'm assuming you haven't traveled all that much in the US and seem some of the poorer parts of places?
 
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