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what are the possible affects of gay marriage?

Mike182

Flaming Queer
in what ways will gays having the legal right to marry the person they love affect society?

will it make it easier for gays to adopt? is that a good thing or a bad thing?

will it lead the way towards polygamous and incestuous marriages? can you open one gate so to speak, but not the others?

feel free to debate any other ways gay marriage could affect society. :)
 

Aasimar

Atheist
in what ways will gays having the legal right to marry the person they love affect society?

Not much frankly, it'll probably take a generation for the bigotry and hatred to wear, much like after civil rights were granted for blacks and suffrage granted to women. It will increase the tolerence of the next generation more likely (i.e. My grandfather still call black people "******" without even realizing how offensive it is to them and my father still strongly dislikes homosexuality, but not on moral grounds he just finds it weird, I imagine the next generation will wonder why we made such a big deal about it.)


will it make it easier for gays to adopt? is that a good thing or a bad thing?


I hope so, we need all the competent parents we can get. So yes, it's a good thing. Also adds to that tolerence factor


will it lead the way towards polygamous and incestuous marriages? can you open one gate so to speak, but not the others?

I doubt incest will ever be made legal (It's one of those universal laws, every society that survives seems to have it due to the horrible implications of having incest children.)[/quote]


As far as polygamous maybe in the future, but that's kinda hard to say.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
in what ways will gays having the legal right to marry the person they love affect society?

It will be the end of civilization as we know it (hopefully).

More seriously, I cannot imagine it affecting society in any negative way. On the other hand, when a society becomes more tolerant and accepting of it's law abiding members it's a good thing.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
If anything I think it would improve society as allowing homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals would lower the intolerance factor and if homosexuals are allowed to adopt fewer children have to grow up in orphanages or foster care. It very well could lead to polygamy becoming legal as well but I don't see that as a bad thing either(provided it doesn't just apply to men). However incest is doubtful. The thing is a lot of people who are opposed to homosexuality claim that legalizing such marriages will cause other forms of sex to become legal like bestiality without taking into account the fact there is no connection between the two. 50 years ago those who opposed it claimed that interracial marriage would lead to all sorts of sexual and moral depravity but it was legalized anyway and all those ugly predictions made by the opposition never came to pass.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
in what ways will gays having the legal right to marry the person they love affect society?

It will free up all the lawyers who are currently engaged in setting up powers of attorney, living wills, adoption of partner's children, etc., to get some semblance of the legal relationship inherent in marriage, allowing them to spend more of their time on frivolous lawsuits. :D

will it make it easier for gays to adopt? is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Possibly, and yes, it's a good thing.

will it lead the way towards polygamous and incestuous marriages? can you open one gate so to speak, but not the others?
I think polygamous and incestuous marriages are a very different kettle of fish from same-sex marriages.

In the case of polygamy, the decisions of one person can affect the rights of another: when a person who already has one spouse chooses to marry another, this changes all sorts of things. Take life insurance or estates: without a clear beneficiary/will, everything would go to the spouse; in the case of two or more spouses, the estate and/or insurance payout would be split between the spouses. Should wife #1 get less money just because of an agreement between her husband and wife #2? If the husband was a widower before he married either of them and brought children with him into the relationship, who gets custody? Wife #1 or wife #2?

I suppose a governmental or societal determination on these sorts of things could conceivably be made, but it's enough of a hump in the "slippery slope" that polygamy isn't the logical conclusion of legalizing same-sex marriage.

As for incestuous marriages... I don't know. Assuming you're dealing with adults (i.e. you're not talking about legalizing pedophilia), there's a definite societal imperative to prohibit procreation between close blood relatives, but whether that means that non-procreative incestuous marriages should be legislated against as well, I'm not too sure. My personal opinion is that this is enough of a reason to say "no" to legalization of incestuous marriages.

I don't think there's a lot of hue and cry from the incestuous marriage camp anyhow, so I don't know how big an issue it is.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
We don't really need to speculate, we can just ask the people in Holland, Belgium, Canada, Spain, South Africa and Massachusetts how it's going there. Is anyone on the board from any of those places, and can you tell us what effects, if any, gay marriage has had?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
We don't really need to speculate, we can just ask the people in Holland, Belgium, Canada, Spain, South Africa and Massachusetts how it's going there. Is anyone on the board from any of those places, and can you tell us what effects, if any, gay marriage has had?

In terms of effect on me as someone neither in nor considering a gay marriage, basically zero.

In terms of effect on a same-sex couple looking to adopt, or on children needing adoption, I'm not sure... maybe it had a slightly positive effect, but I hadn't heard much of anything about same-sex couples being discriminated against in the adoption process before anyhow.

I should point out, though, that there are certain laws in other places that wouldn't be legal here that might affect things: for example, I've heard of cases in some places in the US where landlords have the right to stipulate that a tenant can't sublet without the landlord's permission, and landlords have used clauses like this to evict same-sex couples. Same-sex marriage would definitely benefit those couples (since those laws generally consider spouses living together to not be a "sublessor/sublessee" relationship), but that issue wouldn't have come up where I live anyhow: Ontario law prohibits landlords from putting blanket or arbitrary restrictions on subletting.
 

Nanda

Polyanna
We don't really need to speculate, we can just ask the people in Holland, Belgium, Canada, Spain, South Africa and Massachusetts how it's going there. Is anyone on the board from any of those places, and can you tell us what effects, if any, gay marriage has had?

I live right on the Rhode Island/Massachusetts border - I do all my shopping in Mass, and I have to pass through Mass to get just about anywhere. So far, it hasn't spontaneously burst into flames.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
I'll copy my response to another member that is relevant to this topic:

Because to us, there is little difference between civil unions and actual marriage. The only thing that changes is what we choose to call it. And we don’t object to it because we don’t want to give you guys benefits (Catholics are by default liberal economically speaking) but because we believe Civil laws structure principles of man's life in society, for good or for ill. They play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behaviour. Allowing homosexual unions, not only modifies society but also the family unit and all the psychological jargon that comes with it. You might disagree, but that is what we believe.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
I just have one thing to say, is that the LDS church for one will never accept homosexual marriages as valid even if it becomes legal. It undermines the family unit and God's plan for his children. you may disagree but that is how it is for us.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I just have one thing to say, is that the LDS church for one will never accept homosexual marriages as valid even if it becomes legal. It undermines the family unit and God's plan for his children. you may disagree but that is how it is for us.

I think I said this before. When it comes to the Mormon Church, I would never say never. Someone in future might get a divine revelation that would change the Church's views on this whole subject, just as has happened in the past.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
I think I said this before. When it comes to the Mormon Church, I would never say never. Someone in future might get a divine revelation that would change the Church's views on this whole subject, just as has happened in the past.
If that happens in the Catholic Church, consider me no longer Catholic. You can put a dollar on that.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I think I said this before. When it comes to the Mormon Church, I would never say never. Someone in future might get a divine revelation that would change the Church's views on this whole subject, just as has happened in the past.

It's happened before, I believe. From what I know, the mainstream LDS Church does fairly well with adapting to the legal culture.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
If that happens in the Catholic Church, consider me no longer Catholic. You can put a dollar on that.

I don't think Catholicism changes its doctrine as readily as Mormonism. LDS can turn on a dime if the leaders think it needs to get a divine revelation.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
And we don’t object to it because we don’t want to give you guys benefits (Catholics are by default liberal economically speaking) but because we believe Civil laws structure principles of man's life in society, for good or for ill. They play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behaviour.
If the Catholic Church were actually interested in using public policy to reflect the Church's views on how society should be, wouldn't mandatory baptism for non-Catholics be a higher priority than banning same-sex marriage for non-Catholics?

If that happens in the Catholic Church, consider me no longer Catholic. You can put a dollar on that.
I doubt it would happen, but if it did, why would you leave the Church over it?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Turn on a dime? :areyoucra

Care to explain yourself?
Y'know, polygamy, negro priests, Lamanites are no longer the "principal ancestors" of the American Indians. When it starts looking like it would be beneficial to change church doctrine, it changes. I think it's kind of cool.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
If that happens in the Catholic Church, consider me no longer Catholic. You can put a dollar on that.
It's not really any of my business but...doesn't this reflect a certain lack of sincerity on your part? I mean, if the Church is the true heir of Christ's church through Peter, and the Pope really is infallible, etc., then wouldn't you be putting your immortal soul at risk over this?
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
hey guys, this thread is not to debate either the morality of homosexuality, or changes in the policy or dogma of any Church.

I'll copy my response to another member that is relevant to this topic:

Because to us, there is little difference between civil unions and actual marriage. The only thing that changes is what we choose to call it. And we don’t object to it because we don’t want to give you guys benefits (Catholics are by default liberal economically speaking) but because we believe Civil laws structure principles of man's life in society, for good or for ill. They play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behaviour. Allowing homosexual unions, not only modifies society but also the family unit and all the psychological jargon that comes with it. You might disagree, but that is what we believe.

and the thread topic is asking exactly what will change. how will society be modified? and in what ways are the modifications you think will occur negative changes?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
hey guys, this thread is not to debate either the morality of homosexuality, or changes in the policy or dogma of any Church.



and the thread topic is asking exactly what will change. how will society be modified? and in what ways are the modifications you think will occur negative changes?

Spain is a Catholic country, and has had gay marriage for two years. Any Spaniards here? How is that working out? Is the Church up in arms there?
 
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