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Why do Hindus and Jews get along great

The Jews came to India after the Jewish temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70
A.D. and the Jews were kicked out of their homeland. In the book - Who are the Jews of India? -(University of California Press, 2000), Nathan Katz says that
India is the only country where the Jews were not persecuted. The Indian chapter is one of the happiest of the Jewish Diaspora. Both Christians and Jews have existed in
Hindu India for centuries without being persecuted. Christianity came to India with St. Thomas in the first century A.D.

Zoroastrians from Persia came to India in the 7th century to flee Islamic
conquest. They are known as Parsees in India. The Parsees lived in India without a sense of having been persecuted through the centuries.

Pluralism and tolerance of diversity are built into Hindu theology. This is why I find all the Hindu Fundamentalists (ie groups like the VHP) to be so sad, Not only are they killing innocent people but they are destroying Hinduism from the inside.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
I think part, but not all, of the reason is because Jews don't preach, neither do Hindus. They've kept themselves to themselves, but been generally friendly with one another.

Christians have used "They killed Jesus!" as a reason to be horrible to Jews, Muslims have used "You went astray!" as a reason to be to be horrible to Jews.

The Jews are not mentioned in the scriptures of the Hindus and though they are poles apart in some places, they haven't bothered taking it upon themselves to harass one another and try to convert.

Hinduism is very open to different opinions, I think. :)
 

Darkwater

Well-Known Member
Cool,Scotland the fledling nation never religiously discriminated,like a beacon in the night.

Andrew(Andra) is Indara/Indra,of course.Not discriminating betwee jew nor greek,scottisman nor Inglichman(1320 document),taken from the epistle to the Galatians.

Namah hah teh

Also the Judeo-christian archangel(proper saints,not stupid purchased beatified) & angel pantheon are travelled in a similar fashion to the Hindu.......the more refined one does become.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
What Odion says is probably correct. Jews were here before 70 AD, actually before the christian era, as merchants in Kozhikode. They did not preach their religion to us. The problem comes when people try to preach to us.

It is not that jews and hindus see similarly. Quite many hindus in India are against the occupation of Palestine, with whom India has always been friends, having suffered a similar fate.
 

bhimashelper

New Member
sorry but i think any such alliance is a bad idea.

according to jewish law worship of god as practiced by hindus, is strictly forbidden. the doors on one side are open but on the other they are firmly shut, correct me if i am wrong?
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
I don't think we Hindus should go out of out way to be tolerant to those who are intolerant to us. I think the biggest delusion in the Hindus mind is that all religions are the same and equal and we must show how tolerant and good we are.

Trust me, others religions do not think the same of us.
 
sorry but i think any such alliance is a bad idea.

according to jewish law worship of god as practiced by hindus, is strictly forbidden. the doors on one side are open but on the other they are firmly shut, correct me if i am wrong?

I believe that both sides are more open then you think.

Read what the Chief Rabbinate of Israel has to say about there relations with Hindus
" In keeping with the Delhi declaration, the participants reaffirmed their commitment to
deepening this bilateral relationship predicated on the recognition of One Supreme Being, Creator and Guide of the Cosmos; shared values; and similar historical experiences. The parties are committed to learning about one another on the basis of respect for the
particular identities of their respective communities and seeking, through their bilateral relationship, to be a blessing to all."

I dont think that the Jews should become Hindu's or the Hindu's could become Jews.

It is just that the Jews accept how we see our faith they also said this about the Hindus faith.

"It is recognized that the One Supreme Being, both in its formless and manifest aspects,
has been worshipped by Hindus over the millennia. This does not mean that Hindus
worship ‘gods’ and idols’. The Hindu relates to only the One Supreme Being when
he/she prays to a particular manifestation."

I dont think there are any closed doors between Jews and Hindus.

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel also said this about the Aran Invasion Theory.

"Since there is no conclusive evidence to support the theory of an Aryan
invasion/migration into India, and on the contrary, there is compelling evidence to refute it; and since the theory seriously damages the integrity of the Hindu tradition and its connection to India; we call for a serious reconsideration of this theory, and a revision of
all educational material on this issue that includes the most recent and reliable
scholarship."

This sounds like a friend to me.

You add to this that many Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation it seems to be a good fit.
 
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I don't think we Hindus should go out of out way to be tolerant to those who are intolerant to us. I think the biggest delusion in the Hindus mind is that all religions are the same and equal and we must show how tolerant and good we are.

Trust me, others religions do not think the same of us.

I dont believe that all faiths are the same. I do believe that if some one is a good neighbor we should be tolerant of their faith. This is our History and our Dharma.

When adults tell my 5 year old son that he and his mom and dad going to Hell because he is not the same religion. I think this is not to be tolerated.

This is a story Ramakrishna told that kind of fits what we are talking about.

Some cowherd boys used to tend their cows in a meadow where a terrible poisonous snake lived. Everyone was on the alert for fear of it. One day a brahmachari was going along the meadow. The boys ran to him and said; 'Revered sir, please don't go that way. A venomous snake lives over there.' 'What of it, my good children?' said the brahmachari. 'I am not afraid of the snake. I know some mantras.' So saying, he continued on his way along the meadow. But the cowherd boys, being afraid, did not accompany him. In the mean time the snake moved swiftly toward him with upraised hood. As soon as it came near, he recited a mantra, and the snake lay at his feet like an earthworm. The brahmachari said: 'Look here. Why do you go about doing harm? Come, I will give you a holy word. By repeating it you will learn to love God. Ultimately you will realize Him and so get rid of your violent nature.' Saying this, he taught the snake a holy word and initiated him into spiritual life. The snake bowed before the teacher and said, 'Revered sir, how shall I practise spiritual discipline?' 'Repeat that sacred word', said the teacher, 'and do no harm to anybody.' As he was about to depart, the brahmachari said, 'I shall see you again.' "Some days passed and the cowherd boys noticed that the snake would not bite. They threw stones at it. Still it showed no anger; it behaved as if it were an earthworm. One day one of the boys came close to it, caught it by the tail, and, whirling it round and round, dashed it again and again on the ground and threw it away. The snake vomited blood and became unconscious. It was stunned. It could not move. So, thinking it dead, the boys went their way.
"Late at night the snake regained consciousness. Slowly and with great difficulty it dragged itself into its hole; its bones were broken and it could scarcely move. Many days passed. The snake became a mere skeleton covered with a skin. Now and then, at night, it would come out in search of food. For fear of the boys it would not leave its hole during the day-time. Since receiving the sacred word from the teacher, it had given up doing harm to others. It maintained its life on dirt, leaves, or the fruit that dropped from the trees.
"About a year later the brahmachari came that way again and asked after the snake. The cowherd boys told him that it was dead. But he couldn't believe them. He knew that the snake would not die before attaining the fruit of the holy word with which it had been initiated. He found his way to the place and, searching here and there, called it by the name he had given it. Hearing the teacher's voice, it came out of its hole and bowed before him with great reverence. 'How are you?' asked the brahmachari. 'I am well, sir', replied the snake. 'But', the teacher asked, 'why are you so thin?' The snake replied: 'Revered sir, you ordered me not to harm anybody. So I have been living only on leaves and fruit. Perhaps that has made me thinner.'
"The snake had developed the quality of sattva; it could not be angry with anyone. It had totally forgotten that the cowherd boys had almost killed it.
"The brahmachari said: 'It can't be mere want of food that has reduced you to this state. There must be some other reason. Think a little.' Then the snake remembered that the boys had dashed it against the ground. It said: 'Yes, revered sir, now I remember. The boys one day dashed me violently against the ground. They are ignorant, after all. They didn't realize what a great change had come over my mind. How could they know I wouldn't bite or harm anyone?' The brahmachari exclaimed: 'What a shame! You are such a fool! You don't know how to protect yourself. I asked you not to bite, but I didn't forbid you to hiss. Why didn't you scare them by hissing?'



Its ok to hiss and protect your your faith and family.





Nikhilananda, Swami (1942). The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.

Parables of Ramakrishna/The Parable of the snake that refused to hiss - Wikisource
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Want to be Hindu: Am I supposed to be pleased about what the Chief Rabbinate of Israel has to say about Aryan being indigenous, even if it may not be truth?

I do not know why the monotheistic religions want to make hinduism also completely monotheistic and disregard the polytheistic or atheistic strains of Vedic beliefs and pre-Aryan beliefs. I want to register my objection.

Hindus had good relations with the jews settled in India, India has good relations with Israel and does not wish any harm to come to it. But, then, these are political statements, to win support in any future UN vote. :)

Also, thanks for the snake story. Zenzero should read it.
 
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Want to be Hindu: Am I supposed to be pleased about what the Chief Rabbinate of Israel has to say about Aryan being indigenous, even if it may not be truth?

I believe it would be a mistake to use a diffrent faith as proof of the truth of your religion. Each belief system should stand on its own merits.

I am trying to straighten out the misconceptions of the views that outsiders have of Hinduism. Many only see Hinduism as polytheistic no other side of Hinduism is ever seen.

We have talk about AIT many times. I know your views. I seem unable to dissiuss the AIT with out getting mad so I will just :run:

I do not know why the monotheistic religions want to make hinduism also completely monotheistic and disregard the polytheistic or atheistic strains of Vedic beliefs and pre-Aryan beliefs. I want to register my objection.

I agree with your objection.
 

niranjan

Member
"It is recognized that the One Supreme Being, both in its formless and manifest aspects,
has been worshipped by Hindus over the millennia. This does not mean that Hindus
worship ‘gods’ and idols’. The Hindu relates to only the One Supreme Being when
he/she prays to a particular manifestation."

Yes, this is the concept of Brahman. All the deities and gods are but manifestation of the one supreme Being Brahman, and symbolise the attributes of Brahman.

Hinduism is basically monistic, though I have no problems with polytheistic sects or religions worshipping the divine in their own charecterestic manner.What is important is the self-cultivation ,spiritual and moral improvement of man, not what religion he adheres to.


I dont think there are any closed doors between Jews and Hindus.

Jews had enjoyed a better relationship with Hindus than with any other peoples or religion on earth.

After the Roman destruction of their temple, many jewish refugees came to India, where they were given refuge and full freedom of worship.

According to statistics, India is the only country in the world which has not persecuted the Jews on the basis of ethnicity, culture or religion.

The Jews are a nice,cultured and good people, and I enjoyed the company of many Jewish friends of mine.I had a great time with an Indian Jewish friend of mine in India.


The Chief Rabbinate of Israel also said this about the Aran Invasion Theory.

"Since there is no conclusive evidence to support the theory of an Aryan
invasion/migration into India, and on the contrary, there is compelling evidence to refute it; and since the theory seriously damages the integrity of the Hindu tradition and its connection to India; we call for a serious reconsideration of this theory, and a revision of
all educational material on this issue that includes the most recent and reliable
scholarship."

Well said. The fraudulent 'Aryan invasion theory', which is but a cheap British propaganda piece to drive a wedge between Indians, and which was consistent with their diabolical 'divide and rule' policy has been derided and severely criticized by the Hindu sages like Swami Vivekananda, Dayananda, Aurobindo and others.

It should be emphasized in all quarters that the arya means noble, and does not mean any racial affiliation whatsoever.

"Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam" Rig Veda 9.63.5 - Make the whole universe Arya (noble)

The message of the Rig Veda itself is to spread wisdom everywhere and make everyone noble.

You add to this that many Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation it seems to be a good fit.

Yes, reincarnation seems to be a belief in Judaism as well, among certain sections.

There are indeed commonalities on which Hindus and Jews can built the basis for a strong friendship , alliance and brotherhood. :)
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Niranjan, you know my views. It is not necessary to consider Brahman as any Supreme Being.

"Jews had enjoyed a better relationship with Hindus than with any other peoples or religion on earth." Hindus had good relations with all religions which did not come to proselytize. The jews, the early christians and muslims, and the parsis. "The Cochin Jews arrived in India 2,500 years ago (i.e., even before Antiochus IV Epiphanes) and settled down in Cochin, Kerala as traders." (Wikipedia -History of the Jews in India).

Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory in no way damages the integrity of the hindu tradition. They were just one more people who came to India, modified hindu beliefs, and merged into hindus. There were Dravidians before them, and Greeks, Scythians, Parthians, Kushanas, and Hunas after them. Would you care to think about it and tell me how? The Swamis, Dayananda, Aurobindo, and Vivekananda. :sarcastic
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
I have no problem with the idea of migrations of people from elsewhere who came and contributed or modified the beliefs of the aboriginals, but I am not going to accept it if it is not true. Aryan invasion and migration is not true. It is more or less dead today.
 

niranjan

Member
Niranjan, you know my views. It is not necessary to consider Brahman as any Supreme Being.

That is your views, which is not not at all heard of in Hinduism. Jnana yoga ( yoga of the intellect ) considers Brahman as the impersonal absolute. And Bhakti yoga considers Brahman too as the sureme Being.

Your views are something very new in Hinduism, but thats okay, as Hinduism has the tradition of liberality of accepting all views without conforming to it.



Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory in no way damages the integrity of the hindu tradition.

Aryan Invasion Theory/Migration theory is counter to the teachings of the Vedas, and that of Swami Vivekananda, Swami Dayananda Saraswati ,Aurobindo and other sages.


They were just one more people who came to India, modified hindu beliefs, and merged into hindus.

The Arya is the name of the indigenous religion and culture that came up in India.Not a race of people which is absurd and idiotic to believe, considering what the vedas and hindu scriptures emphasize the arya to be, i.e noble, and not a race of people.

Even the vanaras in the ramayana, who were an another species, regarded themselves as Aryas, thus clearly showing the fact that Arya is a culture and a religion, not a race.

.And indeed many peoples have migrated to India from all over the world and were taken into the folds of the Sanatana Dharma.

Would you care to think about it and tell me how? The Swamis, Dayananda, Aurobindo, and Vivekananda.

Swami Vivekananda's teachings are more than enough in this regard, though I revere the rest deeply as well for their scholarship of the Vedas and saintliness.

Bal Gangadhar Tilak himself was influenced by Vivekananda, who as a wandering monk during his tour of India stayed with him in Tilaks house and spent a few days in conversation, which deeply influenced Tilak.

Tilak's teachings emphasizing karma yoga and patriotism in a way stems mainly from Vivekananda's influence.
 
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niranjan

Member
I have no problem with the idea of migrations of people from elsewhere who came and contributed or modified the beliefs of the aboriginals, but I am not going to accept it if it is not true. Aryan invasion and migration is not true. It is more or less dead today.

It is dead and buried in the museum of history.It was staunchly opposed by the hindu intellingentsia as well, in the light of the scriptures and archaeological and scientific discoveries.

It was a propaganda piece that came from Victorian England ,during the colonial era, implanted for 'divide and rule' policies and other ulterior motives, completely ignoring the teachings of the Indian scriptures, and imposing their racist views upon them.

It should be understood also in this context that more than 80 % of the Rishis who composed the Vedas themselves belonged to the lower economic groups . And the caste system did not exist in their times.

This information can be obtained from Sri Sri Ravi Shankars "Heritage of the Dalits."

"O my Lord, a person who is chanting Your holy name, although born of a low family like that of a Chandala, is situated on the highest platform of self-realization. Such a person must have performed all kinds of penances and sacrifices according to Vedic literatures many, many times after taking bath in all the holy places of pilgrimage. Such a person is considered to be the best of the Aryan family" .( Srimad Bhagavatham 3.33.7).
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
'Jnana yoga ( yoga of the intellect ) considers Brahman as the impersonal absolute.': The Upanishads (part of Vedas) say 'Ayamatma Brahma', 'Tat twam asi', 'Aham Brahmasmi'. Where is the Supreme Being?

'Aryan Invasion Theory/Migration theory is counter to the teachings of the Vedas, ..': In what way Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory is contrary to the teachings of the Vedas? That was my question, and you have not answered it.

'The Arya is the name of the indigenous religion and culture that came up in India. Not a race of people which is absurd and idiotic to believe ..': The word 'Aryavarta' or 'Brahmavarta' refers only to the area irrigated by Rivers Saraswati and Drishadvati (roughly modern Haryana). That means that all people in India were not Aryans. Beyond Vindhya Mountains, it was Dakshinavarta, and Sage Agastya was supposedly the first Aryan to cross it. Similarly the movement of Aryans to east along River Ganges is well recorded. If later, the word was used to signify 'a noble and a civilized person', that is besides the point. How do you, then, account for the vast difference in skin-color between people living in North India, some are so fair, and some are so dark (it does not mean that the fair are superior to the dark; but it does mean that they may be from two or more racial groups)?

Read about Aryan at Aryan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Aria (modern Herat) at Aria (satrapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Harahvaiti (another equivalent of Saraswati, Aryans usually named the principal river of the region in which they lived as Saraswati), probably Herat and the valley of the River Hari-Rud is mentioned at the tenth homeland of Aryans in Avesta.

'The term also remains a frequent element in modern Persian personal names, including Arya and Aryan (boy's and girl's name), Aryana (a common surname), Iran-Dokht (Aryan daughter, 'Aryan-duhita', a girl's name), Aryanpour (or Aryanpur, a surname), Aryamane, Ary among many others. The terms "Aryan" and "Iranian" are sometimes used interchangeably, as in the Iranian bank chain, Aryan Bank.'

Pancha-janas: 5 tribes namely Anus, Druhus, Yadus, Turvasas and Purus.
* Seven-sistered, sprung from threefold source, the Five Tribes' prosperer, she must be Invoked in every deed of might. (6.61.12)
* Indra who rules with single sway men, riches, and the fivefold race
Of those who dwell upon the earth. (1.7.9)
* All manliness that is in heaven, with the Five Tribes, or in mid-air,
Bestow, ye Asvins, upon us. (8.9.2)
* The Twain invincible in war, worthy to be renowned in frays,
Lords of the Fivefold People, these, Indra and Agni, we invoke. (5.86.2)
* Who for the Fivefold People's take hath seated him in every home
Wise, Youthful, Master of the house. (7.15.2)
* Agni, may we show forth our valour with the steed or with the power of prayer beyond all other men;
And over the Five Races let our glory shine high like the realm of light and unsurpassable. (2.2.10)

The problem is that the Arya Samajis have only one thing to depend upon, the Vedas (of course, as understood by them). That is why they cannot swallow that Aryans may have come from outside India. That will make them foreigners. In my case, I am a hindu, Vedas are not the whole of hinduism to me. My hinduism stands even without Vedas. There are Rama, Krishna, Shiva, Durga, and the many Gods and Goddesses worshiped in the various parts of India.

My hinduism is grounded in the soil of India. If Vedas belonged to people from outside India (and as you know my ancestry might be actual Aryan, and not contrived as of many Arya Samajis), that does not matter to me. Probably my people came to India, gave Sanskrit and Vedas to the indigenous people and adopted the Indian Gods. I think that was a fair exchange. Both were benefited. Because of that, the Aryan tradition survives only in India and is followed even by the people who may not be Aryan. I subscribe to both, the Vedas and to the Gods and Goddesses which are not mentioned in the Vedas. I think my people were wise to merge with the indigenous people of India. Arya Samaj is nothing but a concoction, an artifice.
 
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Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
'Jnana yoga ( yoga of the intellect ) considers Brahman as the impersonal absolute.': The Upanishads (part of Vedas) say 'Ayamatma Brahma', 'Tat twam asi', 'Aham Brahmasmi'. Where is the Supreme Being?

You just said it yourself, "the impersonal absolute", that is the supreme being. The Vedantic philosophy is that Atman is the core of all beings . The definition of supreme being is that which is the absolute.

Are you familiar with how the Vedas describe it:

ABSOLUTE
- Ishwara/Mahat
- Purusu - Prana
- Prakriti - Aksasha

The absolute is that fundamental state of being of non-duality and is unmanifest. When it becomes manifest it becomes cosmic mind and then there is a duality of two principles the cosmic field which is Moolaprakriti and the cosmic soul, Purush which is consciousness. Then there is yet another differentiation whereby Moolaprakriti becomes Akasha and Purush becomes Prana, which really is just Jivatman(a localised unit of consciousness) which becomes an individual subject to the field, the world. They are essentially the same absolute. That we call Brahman.

I have noted your posts in the past and I think you don't really understand this. You insist that space, time and energy is this Brahman and whereby you identify Brahman with phenomenon, which is the opposite of Vedanta, which is a metaphysical theory. If you are citing from the Upanishads, then you should take note the Upanishads themselves say categorically that Brahman is not space, time and energy, it is that which precedes them. That is because space and time are relational things, that can only come into existence upon detection and thus imply duality. But Brahman is that which is relational to nothing, it is the substratum within which everything, including our individualism takes place and thus it is unknowable by any kind of observation. It cannot be made the object of our perception or our reason.

To say Brahman is space, time and energy is not Vedanta, which is metaphysics, it is materialism. You could hardly justify calling yourself a Vedantist when what you believe is the opposite of what it says. But by all means call yourself a materialist.
 
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