• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Who knew that Ted Cruz would end up being the principled one.

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
On Wednesday night, Cruz was booed off the stage at the RNC for not endorsing Trump. His wife had to be escorted out of the arena due to threats. Trump has personally insulted Cruz's wife and even accused his father of being involved in the murder of JFK(!). I'm no fan of Cruz's beliefs but he did the right thing. Good on him for having some sort of dignity, unlike the disgusting lowlife brown-nosers like Gingrich and Christie, who have no integrity at all and are just sycophantic opportunists. Trump wants his opponents to bow down and grovel before him, despite his awful treatment of them. The ones who are only out for the fame, power and money will submit, while the ones with a bit more self-respect like Kasich and apparently Cruz, will not play that game. The vicious Trump brigade may hoot, howl and politically marginalize them, but I think most people will and do respect them for their stance. Sure, there's obviously underlying selfish political motives behind their stances, but that doesn't take away from their stance being the more dignified.

The GOP is not unified at all. They screwed over the delegates who did not support Trump and even some of his opponents who submitted to him looked horribly uneasy (Rubio really did look like a hostage victim). I really hope the dissenters hold out and don't give in to what is expedient. Please stick to your guns, so to speak. Don't let your Party be completely lost to the neo-fascist hooligans.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The campaign could have been using Cruz as a unifier. They knew he wasn't going to endorse Trump. He became the visible focus for the subsequent two minute hate.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Well, it's definitely a case of give the devil his dues. I do not like Cruz's policies, but it is better to stand and not bow to what you don't believe while you watch your "club" fall to shambles and be taken over by megalomanicial bully.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I wouldn't underestimate Trump's skill at theatrics, Fantome.
The convention isn't being used as a sober discussion of policy. It's more like a xenophobic hate-fest, with The Tribe being whipped into a frenzy over threats from The Other. The chants of "Lock her up!" and "USA! USA!" remind me of newsreels I've seen of Mussolini's speeches or some of the Nuremberg rallies.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Is Ted all about principles, or was it sour grapes?
Either way, I'm glad he didn't get the nod.
If anyone could be worse than The Donald or The Hildabeast, it could've been The Teddy.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
On NPR they were speculating that it may be the end of Cruz's career.

I don't know. It all depends on how things shake down. If Trump looses he may go down as the enlightened one while everyone else was jumping on the bandwagon.

I agree with Revolt that the guy should never sit in the white house. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I honestly don't know if he did it out principle, or as a way of getting back at Trump, or if it was a political calculation, or some combination of any two or all three. But in any case I have to say as much as I despise Ted he had got a huge set of balls on him.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I heard about Cruz's non endorsement before seeing any part of his speech. Heard of him being booed off stage, seeing that part (only) of the speech.

Then I saw his whole speech and find the whole thing to be epitome of politics today. For a good 10 minutes, Cruz is saying everything that today's Republican agrees with. Getting standing ovations from the delegates along the way. During that 10 minutes, I saw literally no lack of support for what Cruz was bringing to the table. I saw unity among Pubs. Then in the last minute, when Cruz was seemingly unwilling to be explicitly clear about endorsing Trump, even while he has been implicitly clear (at least 3 times before that) that voting Republican in 2016 is easily the best choice - only his non explicit endorsement is the message people chose to run with.

I do think it slightly foolish that he didn't explicitly endorse, but also see it as equally foolish for anyone to not see that he implicitly supports Trump right now. It's obviously not full fledged support, but that is how principles always work. Does anyone (literally anyone) think Bernie supports Hillary in a full fledged manner, that everything she has said, or might do, is something that in principle Bernie would have zero issue with?

Dem take on the situation (and by situation I mean well before the convention) is to exploit any sense of disunity. [sarcasm]Which ought to be promoted because of how inherently unbiased Dems are about this matter.[/sarcasm] I'm very confident that an actual Dem would have around 98% disdain for what Cruz did say at the convention and the 2% affection they have for Cruz is only that he isn't completely towing the Republican line. Just like how Pubs loved, nay adored, Bernie when he was standing on principle against Hillary. But realize he was perfectly willing to throw his principles under the bus for 'party unity.'
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
On NPR they were speculating that it may be the end of Cruz's career.
I don't know. It all depends on how things shake down. If Trump looses he may go down as the enlightened one while everyone else was jumping on the bandwagon.
And if trump wins, history may also reveal Cruz to have been the enlightened one.
Alea iacta est.
 
Last edited:

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I honestly don't know if he did it out principle, or as a way of getting back at Trump, or if it was a political calculation, or some combination of any two or all three. But in any case I have to say as much as I despise Ted he had got a huge set of balls on him.
It may be an indication the Republican party is in the midst of a very deep storm that is worse than anyone realizes. Even Boehner who dropped out the way he did is calling Cruz "Lucifer" for not backing Trump. It would have seemed a natural step for the Republicans to shed social Conservativism and become more of a Libertarian party espousing fiscal Conservative policy, but the it was hijacked by the Tea Party and now they are supporting Trump as the "Suer-in-Chief."
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I do think it slightly foolish that he didn't explicitly endorse, but also see it as equally foolish for anyone to not see that he implicitly supports Trump right now.
I see absolutely no reason to think Cruz is supporting Trump's campaign in any way.
I see him as setting himself up to rescue the Republican wing of the GOP when Trump crashes and burns in the face off with Godzillary.
Tom
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I see absolutely no reason to think Cruz is supporting Trump's campaign in any way.
I see him as setting himself up to rescue the Republican wing of the GOP when Trump crashes and burns in the face off with Godzillary.
Tom

I see much reason to think Cruz is still supporting Republican objectives/platform, and does recognize Trump is now the leader.
Either you heard the whole speech he gave and can see the reasons provided (numerous times) in what his speech said, or you are buying only into short-sighted spin.

I actually think whatever Cruz is up to specifically holds more integrity than what Bernie brought to the table after he was eliminated.
I think both Cruz and Bernie believe (100%) that they are better representatives of their party. One has publicly endorsed and seemingly gone against a whole lot of what he said in primaries, and the other has not publicly endorsed, and yet still appears to remain faithful to the party.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I see much reason to think Cruz is still supporting Republican objectives/platform, and does recognize Trump is now the leader.
Either you heard the whole speech he gave and can see the reasons provided (numerous times) in what his speech said, or you are buying only into short-sighted spin.

I actually think whatever Cruz is up to specifically holds more integrity than what Bernie brought to the table after he was eliminated.
I think both Cruz and Bernie believe (100%) that they are better representatives of their party. One has publicly endorsed and seemingly gone against a whole lot of what he said in primaries, and the other has not publicly endorsed, and yet still appears to remain faithful to the party.
Integrity can be a good thing.
But it depends upon what they're faithful to.
He might be an admirable person, a great neighbor, & a loyal friend.....but I wouldn't vote for him.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I see much reason to think Cruz is still supporting Republican objectives/platform, and does recognize Trump is now the leader.
Such as what?
I think Cruz sees a huge divide between Republican values and Trump's values.

I think it more accurate to say that Cruz recognizes that Trump won the primary. But I don't think he supports Trump's campaign because it doesn't reflect his values.

And frankly, I think Cruz represents a lot of republican voters. That spectacle of booing him off the stage is likely to come back to bite Trump's campaign over the next few months.

Tom
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Such as what?
I think Cruz sees a huge divide between Republican values and Trump's values.

I think it more accurate to say that Cruz recognizes that Trump won the primary. But I don't think he supports Trump's campaign because it doesn't reflect his values.

And frankly, I think Cruz represents a lot of republican voters. That spectacle of booing him off the stage is likely to come back to bite Trump's campaign over the next few months.

Tom

I perhaps partially, to maybe even mostly agree. If you are saying Cruz's values and Trump's values are different. And different enough for Cruz to at least give off appearance of creating a divide, by the non endorsement.

But you are asking for "such as what" and given what I recall from the speech, and have now found online to quote from, I shall. I'm saying Cruz is clearly offering signs of support for Trump, and is clearly on board with the Republican platform as it relates to the 2016 national election. Here are quotes to back that up.

Near the beginning:

I’m convinced America is going to come back too.

I congratulate Donald Trump on winning the nomination last night.

Not quoting a whole lot after this, but would say it is stuff that could go either way on what he's conveying. I could see how it might be seen as 'divide between he and Trump,' but I honestly see it as divide between Pubs and Dems that he is mostly speaking to. As that does lead to him saying:

Of course, Obama and Clinton will tell you that they also care about our children’s future. And I want to believe them. But there is a profound difference in our two parties’ visions for the future.

Then a bunch that is along this line (above). Soon leading to:

Enough is enough.

There is a better vision for our future: A return to freedom.

Then leading to:

Freedom means free speech, not politically correct safe spaces.

Freedom means religious freedom, whether you are Christian or Jew, Muslim or atheist. Gay or straight, the Bill of Rights protects the rights of all of us to live according to our conscience.

I see both of these assertions as supporting Trump / Trump's values, and/or updated Republican platform values. He goes on to mention other traditional Pub values. Then says:

Hillary Clinton believes government should make virtually every choice in your life. Education, healthcare, marriage, speech – all dictated out of Washington.

But something powerful is happening. We’ve seen it in both parties. We’ve seen it in the United Kingdom’s unprecedented Brexit vote to leave the European Union.

Voters are overwhelmingly rejecting big government. That’s a profound victory.

People are fed up with politicians who don’t listen to them, fed up with a corrupt system that benefits the elites, instead of working men and women.

We deserve an immigration system that puts America first. And yes, builds a wall to keep us safe.

That stops admitting ISIS terrorists as refugees.

We deserve trade policies that put the interests of American farmers and manufacturing jobs over the global interests funding the lobbyists.

And if we choose freedom, our future will be brighter.

Freedom will bring back jobs, raise wages.

Freedom will lift people out of dependency, to the dignity of work.

Thought after 2 to no more than 4 lines, I'd snip that quote, but feel it all helps bolster the response to "such as what" inquiry you made. I see him clearly speaking about Trump here and (strongly) implying he's on that side.

Those were fights for freedom, and so is this.

And so can we.

I'm snipping a bit here only cause I feel it's a bit long, and how helpful it is to the point I'm addressing is debatable. I see it as helpful to the point I'm making.

We deserve leaders who stand for principle. Unite us all behind shared values. Cast aside anger for love. That is the standard we should expect, from everybody.

Other than the non-endorsement, this would be the only area where I agree he is setting up a divide, plausibly, between him and Trump. Though I think it is still possible to interpret this part as about Dem leaders.

We must make the most of our moment – to fight for freedom, to protect our God-given rights, even of those with whom we don’t agree, so that when we are old and gray . . . and our work is done . . . and we give those we love one final kiss goodbye . . . we will be able to say, “Freedom matters, and I was part of something beautiful.”

Thank you. And may God bless the United States of America.

Might as well go to the end of it, now that I'm this far. I see this as going either way, and unless ignoring a whole lot I've brought up, then I think he's saying all Americans need to work together, to fight for freedom, while implying, Pubs fight more or in way he relates most to.

I'll also just note that from my review of this speech, now for I think my 4th time (twice taking the whole message into account), I really don't see it as (remotely close to) anti-Trump, nor why he'd be remembered for getting booed. Go watch the speech again, he's getting a whole lot of ovations for what he said. It's obviously the context before and after this speech that helps put the booing into perspective, but given what his speech conveys, I really have trouble seeing the popular spin his speech has received.

Btw, I found full transcript on HuffPo, of all places.
 
Top