Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

[Pudding]

Look....the universe is eternal...there is no beginning... If you think there is....show me how it started....what caused the big bang?

You refuse to give evidence to support your claims that "the universe is eternal...there is no beginning", other than the illogical argument of "Look....the universe is eternal...there is no beginning..." and pretend it really backs up your unsubstantiated claims?
I sense maybe someone is trolling...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You refuse to give evidence to support your claims that "the universe is eternal...there is no beginning", other than the illogical argument of "Look....the universe is eternal...there is no beginning..." and pretend it really back up your unsubstantiated claims?
i sense someone is trolling...

I have given you the reason many times...there is no scientific proof that the existent sum total energy and mass of the universe could have been created from nothing....nor could it be made to disappear and become nothing......therefore it is eternal. If you believe it was created from nothing....show me the proof that it was created from nothing?

 

[Pudding]

One may like to read my post #206 in another thread.
Regards

What is the message you wish to convey?
Do you have any intention to answer my questions?
Or do you wish to continue to reply to my questions by asking me more questions or some other things which i've no idea why you do so?

 

[Pudding]

I have given you the reason many times...there is no scientific proof that the existent sum total energy and mass of the universe could have been created from nothing....nor could it be made to disappear and become nothing......therefore it is eternal. If you believe it was created from nothing....show me the proof that it was created from nothing?

"there is no scientific proof that the existent sum total energy and mass of the universe could have been created from nothing....nor could it be made to disappear and become nothing" is not equal to "there is scientific evidence which can prove the universe is eternal and have no beginning or ending".

I don't believe universe is created from something nor nothing. I don't know what is the factually correct answer for that.

You, otoh, believe or claims that universe is eternal and have no beginning or ending, simply because currently there is no scientific evidence can prove "eternal is from nothing and have beginning", so you conclude that it helps to proves your unsubstantiated claims that "universe is indeed eternal and have no beginning", although you refuse to provide any scientific/non-scientific evidence to support your unsubstantiated claims that "universe is indeed eternal and have no beginning".
I can't understand your logic...
It seems like we can't communicate with each other effectively, maybe you really have a point in your opinion although i don't think so.
There is no point to continue the debate, you think you're correct and i don't think so, that's the verdict...you continue to think you're right, and i continue to think i'm right about your not being right...i think we can only agree to disagree...

 

[Thief]

Look....the universe is eternal...there is no beginning... If you think there is....show me how it started....what caused the big bang?

show you God?

hmmmm hold that thought.....and when you die....there it will be

 

[Ben Dhyan]

"there is no scientific proof that the existent sum total energy and mass of the universe could have been created from nothing....nor could it be made to disappear and become nothing" is not equal to "there is scientific evidence which can prove the universe is eternal and have no beginning or ending".

I don't believe universe is created from something nor nothing. I don't know what is the factually correct answer for that.

You, otoh, believe or claims that universe is eternal and have no beginning or ending, simply because currently there is no scientific evidence can prove "eternal is from nothing and have beginning", so you conclude that it helps to proves your unsubstantiated claims that "universe is indeed eternal and have no beginning", although you refuse to provide any scientific/non-scientific evidence to support your unsubstantiated claims that "universe is indeed eternal and have no beginning".
I can't understand your logic...
It seems like we can't communicate with each other effectively, maybe you really have a point in your opinion although i don't think so.
There is no point to continue the debate, you think you're correct and i don't think so, that's the verdict...you continue to think you're right, and i continue to think i'm right about your not being right...i think we can only agree to disagree...

If you don't believe the universe is created from something or nothing....we are in total agreement... Now take it one step further....if these two possibilities are eliminated, there is only one conclusion left to accept....the universe was never created at all, it always has existed... If you do not understand my logic...show me what step it is you do not understand?

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. - Sherlock Holmes / Arthur Conan Doyle

 

[Ben Dhyan]

show you God?

hmmmm hold that thought.....and when you die....there it will be

I am aware of God now, I don't need to die silly...

 

[Thief]

love that character....to bad he's fictional....(Sherlock)

and I don't see that anything has been eliminated...
Eternal doesn't exclude a beginning.
eternal is more to continuance.

 

[Thief]

I am aware of God now, I don't need to die silly...

you were asking to be shown what caused the beginning.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

love that character....to bad he's fictional....

and I don't see that anything has been eliminated...
Eternal doesn't exclude a beginning.
eternal is more to continuance.

Arthur Conan Doyle is not fictional silly

So which one is not eliminated...universe created from something, or universe created from nothing?

 

[Thief]

you missed my edit.

and your signature indicates you know God .....was, is, and shall always be

that would include eternal.
but creation had a beginning

 

[Ben Dhyan]

you were asking to be shown what caused the beginning.

If you believe their was a beginning...I repeat....where did sum total of all the mass and energy in the universe come from?

 

[Thief]

If you believe their was a beginning...I repeat....where did sum total of all the mass and energy in the universe come from?

and even the best scientist (theoretical physicists) are still working on that.

seems the total sum of all things is proving elusive.
so now they say....there is dark matter....there is dark energy.

sounds like they realize....there can be a darkness as described in Genesis...
before the declaration ....Let there be light!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

and even the best scientist (theoretical physicists) are still working on that.

seems the total sum of all things is proving elusive.
so now they say....there is dark matter....there is dark energy.

sounds like they realize....there can be a darkness as described in Genesis...
before the declaration ....Let there be light!

I am asking you...what do you think the universe was made from...nothing or something?

 

[Thief]

I am asking you...what do you think the universe was made from...nothing or something?

wrought of the Spirit of God.

nothing else available.

there you go

 

[Thief]

when you have eliminated all other possibilities....
that which remains....though it seems improbable....
is the answer

 

[Ben Dhyan]

wrought of the Spirit of God.

nothing else available.

there you go

Then the mass and energy of the universe is an aspect of the Spirit of God....all is eternal....only the manifested forms are subject to change...do you follow?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

when you have eliminated all other possibilities....
that which remains....though it seems improbable....
is the answer

Yes...the manifested universe of God is eternal..without a beginning...but the created forms have beginnings and endings...

 

[Runewolf1973]

I have given you the reason many times...there is no scientific proof that the existent sum total energy and mass of the universe could have been created from nothing....nor could it be made to disappear and become nothing......therefore it is eternal. If you believe it was created from nothing....show me the proof that it was created from nothing?

Hi Ben. I was under the impression that the Ultimate Reality as some call it is pure nothingness. That pure nothingness as I understand it is the background upon which all "somethingness" is percieved ie: matter, energy, interaction, forms...in other words Maya. According to Advaita Vedanta isn't that energy all just illusion anyway and therefore not actually existing as part of reality? So energy or matter isn't actually "something", it just appears to be something. Do you consider Brahman to be the energy of the universe?

 

[Pudding]

If you don't believe the universe is created from something or nothing....we are in total agreement... Now take it one step further....if these two possibilities are eliminated, there is only one conclusion left to accept....the universe was never created at all, it always has existed... If you do not understand my logic...show me what step it is you do not understand?

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. - Sherlock Holmes / Arthur Conan Doyle

I've already explain my opinion in my previous posts, there's nothing more i wants to say/add.