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What we learned from the Greek tragedy

SkylarHunter

Active Member
It seems to me that Greece is going through nothing short of a tragedy and I could write a long, boring, post talking about it but there is no need.

Greece has been in deep sh*** for a long time and the subject is getting tiring.

Somewhere in my subconscious there is a knowledge that this stupid, corrupt world will learn nothing from this situation and will keep making the same mistakes over and over and over.

But this last few days there has been at least one positive thing coming out of this Greek never ending story - we have all learned some new vocabulary in the Greek language

OXI = NO
NAI = YES

Not all is lost then...
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
the only reason the United States is not in the same condition is that the US can print more money whenever it needs it and can sell debt to foreign governments (especially China) if foreigners ever stop accepting worthless US dollars and stop buying US debt then this country will be down the drain just like Greece. Spend, spend, spend, and sell you debt can't last forever
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
the only reason the United States is not in the same condition is that the US can print more money whenever it needs it and can sell debt to foreign governments (especially China) if foreigners ever stop accepting worthless US dollars and stop buying US debt then this country will be down the drain just like Greece. Spend, spend, spend, and sell you debt can't last forever
Actually, given how utterly vital the US is for the world-economy, our debt simply isn't important. There will never(or at least, not in our lifetimes) be a situation where a state makes a big deal out of our debt. We're too important to the economies of nigh-every meaningful nation on the planet. China, India, Japan and the EU's economies are completely dependent on Americans either buying or investing in their ****.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
It seems to me that Greece is going through nothing short of a tragedy and I could write a long, boring, post talking about it but there is no need.

Greece has been in deep sh*** for a long time and the subject is getting tiring.
Greece has been circling the drain for multiple centuries now. This is just the latest in their long, proud history of doing absolutely nothing right or even competently.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Actually, given how utterly vital the US is for the world-economy, our debt simply isn't important. There will never(or at least, not in our lifetimes) be a situation where a state makes a big deal out of our debt. We're too important to the economies of nigh-every meaningful nation on the planet. China, India, Japan and the EU's economies are completely dependent on Americans either buying or investing in their ****.
While it doesn't appear to have curbed their purchase of US debt, China has been critical of our irresponsible ways.
Despite the fact we're still trying to recover from economic meltdown, we're still tolerating the same risk factors....
- Government subsidy of a new housing bubble
- Tax policies which discourage capital expenditures on energy saving technologies
- Massive foreign adventurism spending
- Federal disincentives to troubled loan renegotiation
- Government imposition of high transfer costs for workers who want to relocate
 
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SkylarHunter

Active Member
Actually, given how utterly vital the US is for the world-economy, our debt simply isn't important. There will never(or at least, not in our lifetimes) be a situation where a state makes a big deal out of our debt. We're too important to the economies of nigh-every meaningful nation on the planet. China, India, Japan and the EU's economies are completely dependent on Americans either buying or investing in their ****.



I don't think I can completely agree with you. Yes, the countries you mentioned are stuck with the volume of the American market, but there is only so much currency you can print.

Since the gold standard was dropped, fiat currencies are only worth whatever confidence the mark has in them. What will happen when the dollar loses that confidence?

I've been hearing a lot of buzz about a crisis far worst than the one from 1929 arriving in the near future and its not just from conspiracy theorists.

Bottom line is, when we take steps longer than our legs we end up on the floor. Greece might be just the start of something much, much bigger.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
But this last few days there has been at least one positive thing coming out of this Greek never ending story - we have all learned some new vocabulary in the Greek language

OXI = NO
NAI = YES

Not all is lost then...


Although I'd say a better transliteration of "No" would be "Ochi". ;)
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member

I don't think I can completely agree with you. Yes, the countries you mentioned are stuck with the volume of the American market, but there is only so much currency you can print.

Since the gold standard was dropped, fiat currencies are only worth whatever confidence the mark has in them. What will happen when the dollar loses that confidence?

I've been hearing a lot of buzz about a crisis far worst than the one from 1929 arriving in the near future and its not just from conspiracy theorists.

Bottom line is, when we take steps longer than our legs we end up on the floor. Greece might be just the start of something much, much bigger.
Gold(or other precious metal or gem) backed currency hasn't been viable for quite a while now. As for losing confidence...that's not really an issue. American money remains a global currency. While the Euro is gaining quite a bit of ground, no one is going to refuse dollars any time soon.

As far as "worse than 1929"..give me a break. The Great Depression was a perfect storm brought about by various complications stemming from the Treaty of Versailles(specifically the reparations placed on Germany tanking its economy), rigidity of the stock-market, and failed harvests in the Ukraine & the US. To replicate that, let alone make it worse, you'll need a number of nigh-apocalyptic disasters and a serious military confrontation between great powers.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
some people have their rose colored glasses turned up high and just can't see the reality of things
It's not rose-tinted glasses. It's recognition that the actual 'debt' means far less than the fact that the US Economy is vital to everyone elses'. It's in the best interests of the rest of the world to simply ignore or otherwise not-care about it.
 

SkylarHunter

Active Member
. To replicate that, let alone make it worse, you'll need a number of nigh-apocalyptic disasters and a serious military confrontation between great powers.

At the moment we have wars in many parts of the world, we have water shortages, the population is increasing completely out of control and draining the planet in every possible level, every country is in terrible debt and then there is climate change which is not being taken nearly as seriously as it should. That sounds pretty catastrophic to me.

This buy-more-than-you-can-afford, live-on-a-credit-you-will-never-pay bubble we've been living in for a long time will burst, and when it does, it will be epic and I don't mean it in a good way. I wish I could share your optimism though.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
At the moment we have wars in many parts of the world, we have water shortages, the population is increasing completely out of control and draining the planet in every possible level, every country is in terrible debt and then there is climate change which is not being taken nearly as seriously as it should. That sounds pretty catastrophic to me.

This buy-more-than-you-can-afford, live-on-a-credit-you-will-never-pay bubble we've been living in for a long time will burst, and when it does, it will be epic and I don't mean it in a good way. I wish I could share your optimism though.
How do you see what I'm saying as optimism?

Also, the "wars in many parts of the world"? Yeeeah, no.

Since 1945(founding of the 'United Nations' as an alliance between the British Empire, US and SU then developing into the modern supranational forum we recognize) there hasn't been a single conflict, or group of conflicts, remotely as large in scale & scope as centuries past. I'm not even talking about WW1 or WW2. This is the longest stretch of peace since the time of Rome. There used to be one or more large-scale conflicts between Great & Regional Powers roughly every 5-10 years, starting right after the fall of Rome and continuing up to WW2. We've not had one in fifty.

The conditions for anything like the Great Depression simply don't exist right now. Honestly, it gets extremely tedious to explain this to people, because I really don't think many understand just how unique an event the Depression was.

Oh, another thing; there are methods in place to prevent it. The stock markets are all set to freeze if X amount of losses occur within X amount of time. All shares are frozen and remain so until the cause of the 'free fall' is discerned and remedied.
 

SkylarHunter

Active Member
Oh, another thing; there are methods in place to prevent it. The stock markets are all set to freeze if X amount of losses occur within X amount of time. All shares are frozen and remain so until the cause of the 'free fall' is discerned and remedied.

People also believed everything was fine only a couple of days before Lehman Brothers went bankrupt.

Many of those banks who were bailed out with fiat currency because they were “too big to fall”, today are 30% bigger. I honestly don't think we will be able to print more money to bail them out next time.

The markets have been deregulated to an extent that they are now completely out of control and that will have very dire consequences. I don't believe in their methods to prevent anything.

But if only one of us can be right in this matter, I hope that is you and not me. This is one of those times I would be happy to be wrong.
 
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