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We are not the center of the universe

U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's basically our mindset in religions that sees humans as the only beings in God's creation and only on earth that was given intellegence over animals and other plants and such that live, is alive, and lives With us too.

For example, in the Bible we are created as the first man and woman. After all plants, animals, etc on "earth" no where else were there is intellegent life outside earth, so as assumed by biblical authors.

The political nature that the higher authority (seen as Kings, Queens, prophets, honored soilders, and others from mythological gods, to one god, to goddesses and more) is always in the lead is a "human" concept. It is not a spiritual one.

Spirituality has no hiarchy. There is no one above all. It is being equal to all life. It is seeing we are a whole with Everyone and Everyone on earth and beyond it.

If a supreme God exist, Id assume He doesnt see US as the center of the universe. The idea I described is one big reason I see no reason for God to exist. It is His position in relation to humans that mirrors our needing governers, presidents, kings, and queens, from mothers and fathers, and legal guardians to lead over another persons access to more knowledge, to freedom, and to rights that to many are denied of.

As for christianity, I see we have not separated from this view of authority. We see this in believers telling others what they "believe" is truth for all. We see it in priests and pope positions. The value we see in the apostles thinkinf THEY hold the exact words of Jesus; they dont. Jesus is another example.

This is the same for Bahallauh, Muhammad, the Buddha, the Hindu Gods, humans or not that are given reverence and some to the point of extreme worship.

Spirituity has no one above the other. If is the holistic, interconnection between everything and one living all the universes. (Universe as in real not metaphysical language like "cosmos")

POINT: We, humans, are NOT the center of the universe. Why do we, in many deity like faiths, not just christianity, think we are?

Havnt we evolve from stories like Genesis that says WE are the first creation?

Are our minds still primitive to think we are still "special"?
 
jeager106

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Carlita says:

"POINT: We, humans, are NOT the center of the universe. Why do we, in many deity like faiths, not just christianity, think we are?"

I haven't a clue why you assume the assumption.

??????????????????????????????????????
Why do you think that so many think we are the center of the universe?
What has given you the impression that most of humanity thinks in this way?

(By the way I love the new avatar.)
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
jeager106 said:
Carlita says:

"POINT: We, humans, are NOT the center of the universe. Why do we, in many deity like faiths, not just christianity, think we are?"

I haven't a clue why you assume the assumption.

??????????????????????????????????????
Why do you think that so many think we are the center of the universe?
What has given you the impression that most of humanity thinks in this way?

(By the way I love the new avatar.)
Click to expand...
The center of the universe symbolizes truth. Adherents to religion believe they know the truth.
 
jeager106

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
savagewind said:
The center of the universe symbolizes truth. Adherents to religion believe they know the truth.
Click to expand...

Is it not true that most adherents to religion believe they know the truth?
ALL religions and all believers?
Are not faith and truth closely related?
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Carlita said:
That's basically our mindset in religions that sees humans as the only beings in God's creation and only on earth that was given intellegence over animals and other plants and such that live, is alive, and lives With us too.

For example, in the Bible we are created as the first man and woman. After all plants, animals, etc on "earth" no where else were there is intellegent life outside earth, so as assumed by biblical authors.

The political nature that the higher authority (seen as Kings, Queens, prophets, honored soilders, and others from mythological gods, to one god, to goddesses and more) is always in the lead is a "human" concept. It is not a spiritual one.

Spirituality has no hiarchy. There is no one above all. It is being equal to all life. It is seeing we are a whole with Everyone and Everyone on earth and beyond it.

If a supreme God exist, Id assume He doesnt see US as the center of the universe. The idea I described is one big reason I see no reason for God to exist. It is His position in relation to humans that mirrors our needing governers, presidents, kings, and queens, from mothers and fathers, and legal guardians to lead over another persons access to more knowledge, to freedom, and to rights that to many are denied of.

As for christianity, I see we have not separated from this view of authority. We see this in believers telling others what they "believe" is truth for all. We see it in priests and pope positions. The value we see in the apostles thinkinf THEY hold the exact words of Jesus; they dont. Jesus is another example.

This is the same for Bahallauh, Muhammad, the Buddha, the Hindu Gods, humans or not that are given reverence and some to the point of extreme worship.

Spirituity has no one above the other. If is the holistic, interconnection between everything and one living all the universes. (Universe as in real not metaphysical language like "cosmos")

POINT: We, humans, are NOT the center of the universe. Why do we, in many deity like faiths, not just christianity, think we are?

Havnt we evolve from stories like Genesis that says WE are the first creation?

Are our minds still primitive to think we are still "special"?
Click to expand...


We are the only sentient beings in millions of species, amongst the 'great silence' of the galaxy.. as far as we can tell we are the only means by which the universe is even aware of it's own existence- the only means it has of being appreciated from within.

So if we are not actually the physical center (although that would explain the consistency of the CMBR) we certainly appear to be the most significant part of it, the primary intended beneficiaries of creation, unless you believe in aliens, and someone comes up with evidence , though it ain't looking promising.

Long ago this was a less supported conclusion than it is now, a 'lucky' guess perhaps?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Guy Threepwood said:
We are the only sentient beings in millions of species, amongst the 'great silence' of the galaxy.. as far as we can tell we are the only means by which the universe is even aware of it's own existence- the only means it has of being appreciated from within.

So if we are not actually the physical center (although that would explain the consistency of the CMBR) we certainly appear to be the most significant part of it, the primary intended beneficiaries of creation, unless you believe in aliens, and someone comes up with evidence , though it ain't looking promising.

Long ago this was a less supported conclusion than it is now, a 'lucky' guess perhaps?
Click to expand...
Kinda puts us in a egotist or self/human stance to say we are the only intellegent beings. Just because we dont know, doesnt make us the center. Were not special we're just ignorant to looking outside our universe and not thinking about ourselves as "special."

Interesting to observe in some religions.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
jeager106 said:
Is it not true that most adherents to religion believe they know the truth?
ALL religions and all believers?
Are not faith and truth closely related?
Click to expand...
No, I do not think faith and truth are related even a more than a little bit.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Carlita said:
Kinda puts us in a egotist or self/human stance to say we are the only intellegent beings. Just because we dont know, doesnt make us the center. Were not special we're just ignorant to looking outside our universe and not thinking about ourselves as "special."

Interesting to observe in some religions.
Click to expand...

That was certainly a popular belief back in the day of Verne, Poe etc, - when it was popular to assume that our solar system, and even the moon were all populated with some sort of intelligent life...

If considering what we know now, that we are utterly unique amongst millions of species, that our galaxy gives up nothing but deafening silence when we listen to it.. to be 'special' is egotistical...

Then what is it to insist we are not special, despite the evidence? an insecurity complex? Would reality care about being fashionably self deprecating? why not just look at the evidence instead- yes, we're kinda special as it turns out
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
" From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

—Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space, 1997 reprint, pp. xv–xvi
See also
References

Carl Sagon always did have a way with words.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Guy Threepwood said:
That was certainly a popular belief back in the day of Verne, Poe etc, - when it was popular to assume that our solar system, and even the moon were all populated with some sort of intelligent life...

If considering what we know now, that we are utterly unique amongst millions of species, that our galaxy gives up nothing but deafening silence when we listen to it.. to be 'special' is egotistical...

Then what is it to insist we are not special, despite the evidence? an insecurity complex? Would reality care about being fashionably self deprecating? why not just look at the evidence instead- yes, we're kinda special as it turns out
Click to expand...
Naw. We just didnt find anything beyond what we can find evidence for. Doesnt make us the center. We automatically think that were alone and special. Bold claim to make.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Carlita said:
Naw. We just didnt find anything beyond what we can find evidence for. Doesnt make us the center. We automatically think that were alone and special. Bold claim to make.
Click to expand...

If the galaxy, never mind the solar system, had turned out to be teaming with sentient life, all asking the same questions, I'd accept the implications of that; we're not special.

But it didn't, what we did learn was how remarkably special Earth was, I'm just willing to accept the implication of that also, the one of observed reality
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Guy Threepwood said:
If the galaxy, never mind the solar system, had turned out to be teaming with sentient life, all asking the same questions, I'd accept the implications of that; we're not special.

But it didn't, what we did learn was how remarkably special Earth was, I'm just willing to accept the implication of that also, the one of observed reality
Click to expand...
Earth isnt special. Just we havnt found anything or one else outside our reach.
 
gsa

gsa

Well-Known Member
Guy Threepwood said:
We are the only sentient beings in millions of species, amongst the 'great silence' of the galaxy.. as far as we can tell we are the only means by which the universe is even aware of it's own existence- the only means it has of being appreciated from within.

So if we are not actually the physical center (although that would explain the consistency of the CMBR) we certainly appear to be the most significant part of it, the primary intended beneficiaries of creation, unless you believe in aliens, and someone comes up with evidence , though it ain't looking promising.

Long ago this was a less supported conclusion than it is now, a 'lucky' guess perhaps?
Click to expand...

Even if we assume that we are the only sentient/sapient civilization, which is a major assumption that finds no actual empirical support given our ignorance of the vast cosmos, it would not follow that we are "the most significant part" of the universe nor "the primary intended beneficiaries of creation." It simply means that we have some traits that allowed us to contemplate the meaning and (in)significance of our existence in a way that does not appear to be the case for most other animals. Moreover, there is no evidence that we are the intended beneficiaries of anything. As far as we can see, in terms of percentage, most of the universe is quite hostile to biological life.

Also the existence of Neanderthals kind of cuts against this view, doesn't it? We co-existed with another sentient species for thousands of years. Or what about the predecessors, homo erectus? They had a high level of sociality including proto-language, apparently mastered fire and were the first foraging species. Indeed, there is some evidence of burial practices by Homo heidelbergensis, which could indicate that they, too, contemplated their own existence. Of course, we might say the same for elephants, dolphins and chimps, all of which have been observed with death and, in the case of elephants, burial rituals.

Moreover, whatever you say about the uniqueness of humanity is quite relative even on this planet. In 3 million years, it is entirely possible that our species will be extinct, and that another species will have achieved a level of sentience and ultimately technological sophistication that approximates our own.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Thanks. :)

Religious claims that we are the first creation of all humans. Political naturenof authority, the "we know the truth". Another one is someone saying we are smarter than the animals. "We are smarter; we can think; no other beings can do that" comments like that. Also history of the Church. Hiarchy in power and control as if we know it all. Its interesting to observe.

jeager106 said:
Carlita says:

"POINT: We, humans, are NOT the center of the universe. Why do we, in many deity like faiths, not just christianity, think we are?"

I haven't a clue why you assume the assumption.

??????????????????????????????????????
Why do you think that so many think we are the center of the universe?
What has given you the impression that most of humanity thinks in this way?

(By the way I love the new avatar.)
Click to expand...
 
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