Was Islam spread by the sword?

[McBell]

I'm sure I wouldn't be all that surprise if he did.

seems to me, in order for him to remain consistent, he will have to.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

seems to me, in order for him to remain consistent, he will have to.

Or he could, y'know, continue burying his head in the sand.

 

[gnostic]

Islam is not just about Allah or the Qur'an, but what he did, while he claimed to be a "prophet" or "messenger" or whatever title he or other Muslims have given him...and that's including him get involved in politics or war.

If he wasn't into politics, then why did he get involved with Medina's affairs, acting as mediator between feuding tribes, bringing up policies that give Muslims unfair advantages (referring to the Constitution of Medina). Gave him the power dictate what is "treason", and take properties that don't belong to him or Muslims (like when he banished the Banu Qaynupa, in 624). The assassinations of Khaled b. Sufyan & Abu Rafi are also political moves.

Sending emissaries or accepting emissaries are playing the political games, paarsurrey.

Raiding caravans for loots or plunders are acts of piracy, but the Qur'an have loopholes that Muslims can do this without being labelled as criminals or outlaws. It is the same with slavery; he not only condone slavery, but encourage slavery (the enslavement of the women and children of Banu Qurayza).

The destruction of idols in Mecca and other towns or cities, is an act of policy.

Like or not, Muhammad was in neck-deep in politics and in war, as much as about spreading Islam.

So for you to say, Islam don't get into politics or in wars, is deep wrong. You are, just like A Greased Scotman said, burying your head in the sand.

And please, don't change the subject, because I am talking about what Muhammad did, not what the Ahmadiyya did or didn't do.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in British Virgin Islands:

British Virgin Islands
British Overseas Territory
The British Virgin Islands, part of a volcanic archipelago in the Caribbean, is a British overseas territory. Comprising 4 main islands and many smaller ones, it's known for its reef-lined beaches and as a yachting destination. Tortola is home to the low-key capital, Road Town, and rainforested Sage Mountain National Park. On Virgin Gorda is The Baths, a labyrinth of beachside boulders.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=British+Virgin+Islands

Religion[edit]
The majority of the islanders are Christian (84%), with the largest Christian denominations being Methodist (23%), Anglican (12%), Church of God (11%) and Catholic(9%).[1] The two largest non-Christian religions are Hinduism (2%) and Islam (1%).[1] According to estimates of the Word Religion Database 2005 the share of Muslims is 1.2%.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_British_Virgin_Islands#Ethnicity_and_religion

masjed alnoor islamic center st. thomas virgin islands by ahmed alarefi architect st. thomas
One can view it on the following link of YouTube.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lN-_NVgfZj4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Country/Region[1]: British Virgin Islands
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:< 1,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] : 1.2
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] : < 0.1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in British Virgin Islands . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Muhammad did have a large army. So yes, religion can have an army.
Muhammad wasn't just a prophet. He was also a politician and warlord, in Medina, and later on in Mecca.

Islam is a religion, it has no army.
Christianity is a religion, it has no army.
Hinduism is a religions, it has no army.
Buddhism is a religion, does it have an army?
Zoroastrianism is a religion, does it have an army?
Judaism is a religion, does it have an army?
Religions, none of them ever had any army. It is the states or countries that have armies.
It is so simple.
Regards

 

[gnostic]

Islam is a religion, it has no army.
Christianity is a religion, it has no army.
Hinduism is a religions, it has no army.
Buddhism is a religion, does it have an army?
Zoroastrianism is a religion, does it have an army?
Judaism is a religion, does it have an army?
Religions, none of them ever had any army. It is the states or countries that have armies.
It is so simple.

Again, you are missing the point.

Jesus didn't have army, it's true. But it spread for over two centuries without army at any Christian beck and call.

Moses did have an army because he was travelling with tribes of Israel in hostile lands.

Muhammad may not have an army when left Mecca, but he had army to enforce his will before he left Medina, and he used his arm to force people into submission upon those who oppose his religion.

You can't read, can you?

I have written replies about Muhammad and his actions, that say he did have an army, and yet you continue to deny them or ignore them.

You are either ignorant to the life of Muhammad, or you are dishonest because you won't address my statements about Muhammad and Islam.

Suit yourself. I have wasted enough of my time, trying to get you to respond to my queries without all your evasions, I did not come to satisfy your delusional utopia of Islam.

 

[paarsurrey]

One is simply wrong. I disagree with your point of view. There is no requirements of any army by the religion. Sorry
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Sorry, but where did you get this crap that non-religious person can have multiple partners at the same time?

No where does atheism, nor agnosticism or whatever non-religious culture dictate that multiple partners are acceptable. I know of no non-religious cultures that find multiple partners in marriage being the norm. If there were multiple partners, it is often extra-marital affairs or they are not married at the same time (either one partner died, or they both get a divorce).
Throughout history, where polygamous marriage have been the acceptable norms, they often come from religious societies, due to some religious customs or other religious-related circumstances. And at least with agnostics (don't know about atheists), we are very big in following customs, but that doesn't mean polygamy is encouraged.
Usually, non-religious people followed the guideline of the law of the land they lived in, and in those countries only monogamous relationships are acceptable. They can have multiple partners, just not at the same time.
Where on earth did you get this silly idea that atheists and agnostics support have many partners as possible? What are your sources?

I don't agree with you.
"If there were multiple partners, it is often extra-marital affairs or they are not married at the same time ". Married or not if they are conjugal partners even in extra-marital affairs, their psyche makes them polygamous.
The Atheists/Agnostics have no norms to make any culture or society or civilisation. Hence the onus of quoting from them is not on the religious. Have they any norms like the religions have? No, they don't have.
They are simply confused people with no positive thinking to start with.
Regards

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

I've read through this thread a bit, and there are the Muslims putting forth their points, often with evidence and then there are those who seem hellbent on simply stating "yes, Islam, sword, ofcourse" with little reasoning or response. Not all the resoonders are like that, some have put forward compelling, well educated, well-written posts.

I'd like to take this discussion in a slightly different direction. We keep getting told, by certain people, that Islam must have been spread by the sword, by violence, intimidation and necessity and yet, over 1400 years later, Islam is still the fastest growing religion on the planet and the fastest growing religion in the western world. 2/3 of all converts in Britain are women. I ask any fellow Brits here, do you see marauding hordes of Muslims with weapons forcing people, in particular women, to become Muslim? Is that the case today? How is Islam spreading throughout Britain, the US, France, Germany, the Netherlands so fast and so smoothly, even after the negative propaganda we are fed on a minute by minute basis?

 

[paarsurrey]

I've read through this thread a bit, and there are the Muslims putting forth their points, often with evidence and then there are those who seem hellbent on simply stating "yes, Islam, sword, ofcourse" with little reasoning or response. Not all the resoonders are like that, some have put forward compelling, well educated, well-written posts.
I'd like to take this discussion in a slightly different direction. We keep getting told, by certain people, that Islam must have been spread by the sword, by violence, intimidation and necessity and yet, over 1400 years later, Islam is still the fastest growing religion on the planet and the fastest growing religion in the western world. 2/3 of all converts in Britain are women. I ask any fellow Brits here, do you see marauding hordes of Muslims with weapons forcing people, in particular women, to become Muslim? Is that the case today? How is Islam spreading throughout Britain, the US, France, Germany, the Netherlands so fast and so smoothly, even after the negative propaganda we are fed on a minute by minute basis?

Thanks for your good and reasonable post,
Regards

 

[Augustus]

We keep getting told, by certain people, that Islam must have been spread by the sword, by violence, intimidation and necessity and yet, over 1400 years later, Islam is still the fastest growing religion on the planet and the fastest growing religion in the western world. 2/3 of all converts in Britain are women. I ask any fellow Brits here, do you see marauding hordes of Muslims with weapons forcing people, in particular women, to become Muslim? Is that the case today? How is Islam spreading throughout Britain, the US, France, Germany, the Netherlands so fast and so smoothly, even after the negative propaganda we are fed on a minute by minute basis?

It is the fastest growing religion because of birthrates, not conversions. Conversions in Europe are negligible, probably something like 0.0001% of the population per year.

Nothing to get excited about.

 

[paarsurrey]

It is the fastest growing religion because of birthrates, not conversions. Conversions in Europe are negligible, probably something like 0.0001% of the population per year.
Nothing to get excited about.

"2/3 of all converts in Britain to Islam are women"
Uploaded on Jan 4, 2011
"More and more white British people are converting to Islam. That's according to research by Swansea University - it estimates there are now 100-thousand converts in the UK. What drives people to make such a change in their belief, lifestyle and - in some cases - their dress?"

Why Do People Convert To Islam? - BBC Radio 5 Live
Regards

 

[outhouse]

We keep getting told, by certain people, that Islam must have been spread by the sword, by violence

Refusing credible academia?

Refusing credible scholars?

 

[outhouse]

Is that the case today?

That has nothing to do with the OP and the origins of islam.

 

[paarsurrey]

Refusing credible academia?
Refusing credible scholars?

What do you understand from the "credible academia"? Your own understanding not from a dictionary. Please
What do you understand from the "credible scholars"? Your own understanding not from a dictionary. Please
Regards

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

It is the fastest growing religion because of birthrates, not conversions. Conversions in Europe are negligible, probably something like 0.0001% of the population per year.

Nothing to get excited about.

What tells you that the Muslim birthrate is some how so high throughout the western world that the growth of the religion supersedes the growth of Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism. I mention those particular religions because many Africans, who have quite large families and numbers of children, are actually Christian. I mention Hinduism and Sikhism because, again, they have large families. Why are these religions not having as rapid a growth as Islam?

There are currently a 100, 000 converts living in the UK, according to some stats. Some have a slightly higher or lower number. That's out of a total Muslim population of 2.7 million. Percentage wise, it's a small number but comparing it to conversion numbers of other religions, it's simply dwarfs it. In this age of science and technology and theism, people, in particular women in their 20s, are still coming to Islam. Irregardless of what you think of the percentage, rather than the raw number, my question still stands. What Muslim army is invading Britain and forcing young women, average age 27, to convert to Islam?

 

[Augustus]

What tells you that the Muslim birthrate is some how so high throughout the western world that the growth of the religion supersedes the growth of Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism. I mention those particular religions because many Africans, who have quite large families and numbers of children, are actually Christian. I mention Hinduism and Sikhism because, again, they have large families. Why are these religions not having as rapid a growth as Islam?

More Christians are leaving the religion and the other religions are smaller, thus lower total numbers of growth (it's not about %)

There are currently a 100, 000 converts living in the UK, according to some stats. Some have a slightly higher or lower number. That's out of a total Muslim population of 2.7 million. Percentage wise, it's a small number but comparing it to conversion numbers of other religions, it's simply dwarfs it. In this age of science and technology and theism, people, in particular women in their 20s, are still coming to Islam.

Assuming they all converted in last 30 years, thats 0.000051% of the UK population per year (which is generous).

Seeing as migrants are generally young, single men, and men and women in their 20/30s often get married, then that probably accounts for a proportion of that number.

Worldwide, the only religion getting large numbers of converts is Christianity, mostly in China. More Christians are becoming atheist though so total number not growing.

Irregardless of what you think of the percentage, rather than the raw number, my question still stands. What Muslim army is invading Britain and forcing young women, average age 27, to convert to Islam?

You can search the thread to find my opinion on the historical question. In the strictest sense of 'forced conversions', only the Ottomans had a systematic policy.

What happened in the past is not really relevant though. Charlemagne forced Germanic pagans into Christianity in the past but that doesn't happen any more.

Minuscule numbers of people convert to Islam. It is just what you expect in a multicultural society.

Muslims are the only groups who seem to boast about it like it was a competition though.

Religion isn't like a football team, no need to treat it like one.

 

[paarsurrey]

Refusing credible academia?
Refusing credible scholars?

One may like to read Post #1 in another thread which is related to this post.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Please focus on the following points.

1. Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and is one of the fastest spreading religious community in the world.
2. Ahmadiyya or true Islam has peacefully spread in about 206 countries/territories of the world. In about 150 years Ahmadiyya are already more than the Zoroastrians and perhaps the Judaism people, no disrespect intended to anybody.
3. if one is truthful one would increase despite the opposition, persecution and killings done by the opponents.
4. Ahmadiyya Muslims follow teachings of Quran as did Muhammad follow. In fact Ahmadiyya follow in Muhammad’s footsteps.
5. Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.

I gave how Ahmadiyya spread peacefully in Argentina post #2430, Australia Post #2460 , Austria Post #2489, Bangladesh Post #2513, Belarus Post #2535, Belgium Post #2556, Belize #2571, Bulgaria Post #2595 .

Baitus Salam : Built Capacity: 300 : Location: Nguti, Cameroon

Country/Region:

Cameroon
Ahmadiyya population : 430,000
Percentage (%) of Muslims : 12.0
Percentage (%) of population : 2.2
Notes/Sources :PRC[12]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in Cameroon .

Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in Cameroon ?

Regards

 

[outhouse]

Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya

Rhetoric

That's is personal belief you are Proselytizing.

It does not represent islam, only a minority sect