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Towards a rational faith and religion

Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
buddhist said:
No. There are many overlapping elements and traits between early Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism, but they are not one and the same.
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Where have you obtained your understanding of "early Buddhism"? Is it just from reading suttas or from a particular teacher or school, or what?
 
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buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Kartari said:
Hi buddhist,

It is true that the Buddha did not speak either way about a Creator deity. And I agree, he certainly avoided metaphysical discussion in order to help people focus on what truly matters: the cessation of dissatisfaction or suffering. I do see what you are getting at now. Thanks for explaining.

For me personally, though, the term Creator is too loaded to be meaningful. I prefer to think of my practice more directly, in terms of mind, awareness, wisdom, and compassion.
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You're right, the word "Creator" does have a loaded meaning; perhaps you might have a better word for what I described?

Metaphysical conjectures lead to clinging and increased suffering, instead of release, as the Buddha taught. I don't think we would can truly know the answers to these metaphysical questions until we reach arahantta, and when we do, we probably won't even care what those answers were. :)
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Nowhere Man said:
Indeed.

I take one of the first kensho experiences occurs during the first time one's fanny hits the cushion and starts counting breaths. The reality concerning one's mind reveals itself.

I still remember musing on how incredibly noisy my mind was, and figured the reason why I couldn't concentrate well was because of all that racket going on!

Explained a fair portion of my anxiety.

Here I was blaming it all on drinking bad coffee! =0)
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Thanks for sharing your experience ... I experienced similarly; it's difficult to separate the consciousness from the mind & thoughts. I find that the more I train, the easier it becomes.
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Spiny Norman said:
They're not practices, they're qualities of mind to be developed.
https://suttacentral.net/en/an2.31
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Yes, I understand that, and thank you for sharing the sutta. As I stated, samatha "describes the practice"; it is not the practice itself. I see it as describing the quality of mind developed in specific practices commonly called "samatha meditation". I use the word expediently, much like the Buddha expediently used the word "self".
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Spiny Norman said:
Do you have any contact with teachers or others following a similar path?
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My foremost teachers are samsara-reality and its laws (the Dhamma itself), and Buddha's expositions on the Dhamma in the Nikayas. I unfortunately do not currently have direct personal contact with anyone known to be in the Ariya Sangha.

May I ask, are you Buddhist as well? You seem to have experience with it!
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
buddhist said:
May I ask, are you Buddhist as well?
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Yes, I've been involved in most of the main traditions over a long period of time. In recent years it has been mainly with Thai Forest and Samatha Trust, which are Theravada schools.

I think it might be helpful for you to have some real-world contact with other Buddhists, probably one of the Theravada schools would be a good fit. The suttas are a great resource but it's useful to discuss their meaning and application, and get advice from more experienced practitioners.
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Spiny Norman said:
Yes, I've been involved in most of the main traditions over a long period of time. In recent years it has been mainly with Thai Forest and Samatha Trust, which are Theravada schools.

I think it might be helpful for you to have some real-world contact with other Buddhists, probably one of the Theravada schools would be a good fit. The suttas are a great resource but it's useful to discuss their meaning and application, and get advice from more experienced practitioners.
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I agree ... I have not been able to find many serious practitioners where I am, however. Most are cultural Buddhists, especially of the Mahayana or Vajrayana sects. I have great respect for the Kammatthana/Thai Forest tradition, I find that they are closest to my understanding of early Buddhism.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
"Towards a rational faith and religion"

The more appropriate would be "towards a truthful faith and religion". The truthful one has to be a rational faith or religion, it cannot be otherwise. Am I right? Please
Regards
LuisDantas said:
We have no means of knowing.
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We do have such means, in fact.
The Truth did reveal itself to such men of good characters known world-wide like Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus, Socrates, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, so they became enlightened, the Torch-Bearers of Truth. We cannot reject their testimony.
Regards
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
The humans have been endowed with wisdom, so the ONE who endowed the wisdom to humans must be absolute Wise. Right? Please.
Regards
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Perhaps. I would say that the "One" (as you call it), is simply the collective consciousness of all volitional beings, yet it also transcends that collective. Likened in human terms, a man is both the collective of his individual cells, yet he also transcends that collective.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
buddhist said:
Perhaps. I would say that the "One" (as you call it), is simply the collective consciousness of all volitional beings, yet it also transcends that collective. Likened in human terms, a man is both the collective of his individual cells, yet he also transcends that collective.
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I mean the ONE who caused all volitional beings to exist while no-one other caused Him to exist. Please
Regards
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
I mean the ONE who caused all volitional beings to exist while no-one other caused Him to exist. Please
Regards
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I do not believe in a Creator deity with an independent intelligence or consciousness - that is, a deity which exists apart from its creation. I believe I explained this in my original post. :) We as (apparently) finite creatures in creation, are also inextricably infinite and one with the collective creator. We also possess the ability to transcend creation and creator.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
buddhist said:
I do not believe in a Creator deity with an independent intelligence or consciousness - that is, a deity which exists apart from its creation. I believe I explained this in my original post. :) We as (apparently) finite creatures in creation, are also inextricably infinite and one with the collective creator. We also possess the ability to transcend creation and creator.
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It is a wrong notion. Sorry, I differ with you. Please
Regards
 
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