those hadiths...

[peanutbutter63]

I mean really, why would people spend more time with hadiths rather than reading, studying, and absorbing God's actual words through His holy book the Holy Qur'an? In the mosque I used to frequent, they loved the hadtiths...no, in fact, they're addicted to them....why???? Please take a look below...

 

[peanutbutter63]

Are people aware that rules/hadiths have even been created by many (who claimed that such rulings came from Mohammed the prophet himself) on how to...
-go to the toilet
-perform in private with your wife(and what or which body parts of your wife you can touch)
...and so on?...*yikes*...

 

[Khudayar]

View attachment 10501

Good point. Yes, there are fabricated narrations in both sunni and shia sources even if their narrators say they are authentic. But it doesn't means that all the narrations must be disregarded. On the contrary, one may use his mind to determine what narration is authentic and what is not. I like the Usouli Shia for that. Because they don't care about the narrators' grading of hadiths. Rather they use their mind and decide themselves about which narrations are authentic. Salafi and Wahhabis among Sunnis and Akhbaris among Shiites however don't do this. They take narrations over everything even if the narrations may go against the common sense.

P.s. I may agree with the a few contradictions you mentioned in the sunni sources above (1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th). But others are no contradiction.

Let's take the narration about the solar eclipse for instance. It is no contradiction. You just need to know about the incident wholly and should be aware that both narrations about the solar eclipse are related and happened the same day. The solar eclipse on the day Abraham died was just a coincidence and the Prophet told about the law of the universe in order to destroy the superstitions in the minds of the people. If you check shia sources you can see the whole narration. And I am quoting from the great book "the Message" by Ayatullah Jafar Subhani

Campaign Against Superstitions

Solar eclipse took place on the day Ibrahim (Prophet Muhammad's son) passed away. Some persons, who were ignorant of the laws of nature, thought that the sun had been eclipsed on account of the death of Ibrahim. Although this thinking was absolutely baseless, it could apparently be beneficial for the Prophet. In case, therefore, he had been an ordinary and a worldly leader he could very well confirm this view and thus prove his own magnificence and greatness.

However, as opposed to this thinking, he mounted the pulpit and informed the people of the factual position. He said: "O People! Be it known to you that the sun and the moon are the signs of the Power of Allah. They move in a particular course which Allah has prescribed for them according to the laws of nature. They are not eclipsed on account of the death or birth of anyone. It is your duty, at the time of solar eclipse, to offer prayers" (al-Muhasin, page 313 and Seerah-i Halabi, page 348).

As opposed to many people, who not only interpret facts in their own favour but also take advantage of the ignorance and superstitious thinking of the people, he did not conceal facts and did not try to profit from the ignorance of the people.

If he had endorsed this false thinking on that day he could not have been able to signalize himself and claim to be the eternal leader of mankind and the representative and the chosen one of Allah during the present age when astronomy has taken long strides and the reasons for the solar and lunar eclipses have become clearly known to mankind.

His law and call are not for Arabs alone and are not confined to any time and space. If he is the leader of those, who lived in earlier ages, he is also the Prophet of the space age and of the period of the discovery of the secrets of nature. On whatever subject he has spoken, his words are so sound and firm that the recent scientific upheavals, which have disproved many of the theories of the past scholars, have not been able to find even one weak point in his statements.

 

[Sakeenah]

I mean really, why would people spend more time with hadiths rather than reading, studying, and absorbing God's actual words through His holy book the Holy Qur'an? In the mosque I used to frequent, they loved the hadtiths...no, in fact, they're addicted to them....why???? Please take a look below...

View attachment 10501

The ahadith..are narrations of the prophet Muhammed peace and blessings be upon him. Through studying the ahadith we know how the prophet and companions applied the Quran in their daily life.

One can study the Qur'an and the ahadith it doesn't contradict each other.

 

[Khudayar]

Well, sister. Apparently you missed the examples he gave on "hadiths" contradicting each other, let alone contradicting the Holy Quran.

 

[paarsurrey]

I mean really, why would people spend more time with hadiths rather than reading, studying, and absorbing God's actual words through His holy book the Holy Qur'an? In the mosque I used to frequent, they loved the hadtiths...no, in fact, they're addicted to them....why???? Please take a look below...

I agree with you. Quran should be given priority over everything else.

 

[Gharib]

You don't appear to understand the science of hadith very well. I do not wish to use your lack of knowledge as a case against the hadith that seemingly contradict each other. But it's just obvious that you've copy-pasted that picture most probably from an anti Islamic site without actually verifying those hadith yourself.

 

[mojtaba]

Please take a look below...
View attachment 10501

Salam brother or sister.

I believe that religion has his experts, who can recognize authentic Hadiths from fabricated ones.

When I see a Hadith from Prophet or Ahlulbayt( peace be upon them ) and I think it contradicts the Holy Qur'an verses and hence it is fabricated, I ask from religion experts.Finally, They can answer and satisfy me or not. But in most cases, they can do.

Indeed, I use my mind but I also use the mind of experts, because I'm not an expert in religion!

Good Luck!

 

[mojtaba]

I mean really, why would people spend more time with hadiths rather than reading, studying, and absorbing God's actual words through His holy book the Holy Qur'an? In the mosque I used to frequent, they loved the hadtiths...no, in fact, they're addicted to them....why????

Qur'an itself says it needs an infallible teacher. Indeed, authentic Hadiths of Prophet and his Ahlulbayt are teachings of Qur'an.

Holy Qur'an, al-Nahl, verse 44: "We have sent down the reminder( Qur'an ) to you[, O mohammad ] so that you may clarify for the people that which has been sent down to them."

Holy Qur'an, al-Nisa, verse 80: " Whoever obeys the Apostle certainly obeys Allah ".

So Hadiths are teachings of Holy Qur'an and we can not say authentic Hadiths are not God's actual words.
....................

However I like lecturers who use both Qur'an and Hadiths.

" Qur'an is the Allah’s covenant for His creatures [humans]. So a muslim should see Allah’s covenant and read [ at least ] 50 verses [ of Qur'an ] every day ".
Imam Sadiq( peace be upon him ).

 

[peanutbutter63]

Just some thoughts to share through this video....

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I have some doubts in some hadiths.


Anyways Hadiths are wrote down 200/300 years after prophet PBUH. So yeah some are truth and some are falsehood. I never take hadiths above quran, and never will i do that. If hadith contradicts quran and other hadiths, i reject that hadith.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Just some thoughts to share through this video....

Surprisingly i agree with the speaker. He makes interesting points.
Its simple for me: Quran is light, any hadith that contradicts that is not from prophet Muhammad pbuh because the messenger would never contradict the Creator.

Specialy on the apostasy law hadith contradicts quran. In Quran the apostate(not the armed apostate that causes corruption in the earth) gets punishment in the hereafter. There is no described punishment for apostate in worldlife. So i disagree with the people of sunnis and shias about this with great disagreement. They take contradicting hadith above quran.


Also in Quran the described punishment for adultery is 100 whips after 4 eyewitnesses are found(which is very difficult to find by the way!). Hadiths contradict that and says stoning. They say verse of stoning is left out but the ruling still applies. By Allah i disagree with that. I take quran and what is in quran as punishment for adultery.

In my view the contradicting hadiths are made up by tyrannical regimes to surpress opposition.


Another one is hadith says u must obey a tyrant even with the heart of devil. In quran it says u must stand up for the oppressed women, children and elderly.

Also quran says fighting is allowed for those who have been wronged. But hadith silences opposition and says submit to oppression. So i think such hadiths are created by the scholars of oppressive regimes to silence opposition.

Ahlul hadeeth says obey oppressive tyrant at all times even if he whips ur back and steals ur money.

Hadith: obey tyrant with heart of devil!!

Quran:

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid.

And what reason have you that you should not fight in the way of Allah and of the weak among the men and the women and the children, (of) those who say: Our Lord! cause us to go forth from this town, whose people are oppressors, and give us from Thee a guardian and give us from Thee a helper.






Even hadiths contradict each other as i said before.
About khawarij , the prophet pbuh said they are disbelievers. Ali r.a says they are muslims. For followers of hadiths, the hadith of prophet pbuh and the hadith of ali r.a about khawarij correct! But logic rejects that! They are contradicting each other so obviously they cant be both correct.
So what to do now if both contradicts each other? Easy answer: Muhammad pbuh was prophet, Ali r.a is not higher than the lowest(Lowest in rank, because prophets are in ranks) prophet that ever existed. So we take the hadith of prophet pbuh, and we reject the hadith of ali r.a. We deem that hadith to be fabrication, and not really words spoken by a great companion amir al mumineen Ali r.a .



Conclusion:

There are many contradicting hadiths that contradict quran. So our prime source is only the quran and the extremely authentic hadith that does not contradict quran. Iam not quranist, a quranist rejects all hadiths. But i accept authentic hadith that never contradicts quran.

 

[Gharib]

The hadith of the two Sahihs, Bukhari and Muslim are unanimously accepted and agreed upon by all scholars of the Ahlus Sunah. There are hadith and even verses which from an outwardly and literal view seem to contradict each other, however, Scholars reconcile the meanings of such hadith and verses through numerous ways.

I will give you two examples;
1. A sahih hadith states that there are 5 things which no one knows about other than Allah where one of those things is what is in the womb.
Q. Can either of you two try to explain how this is possible when we have technology which enables us to see inside the womb before the child is born?

2. There are three sahih hadith which ascribe different ages to the Prophet at the time of his death. One hadith says he was 60, another 63 and the third says he was 65.
Q. How is it possible to have three different hadith which clearly contradict each other yet at the same time are all Sahih?

A basic explanation as to how the science of hadith works.
The scinece of hadith doesn't concern itself with having to follow a hadith or not. It only seeks to verify that so and so really did say such and such. You could have 10 hadith which contradict one another as well as the Qur'an, yet because it has been verified that someone actually did say it then it is still classed as Sahih, it is then the duty of the Fukaha (the science of Fiqh) to determine wether we should follow any of them or not.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

The hadith of the two Sahihs, Bukhari and Muslim are unanimously accepted and agreed upon by all scholars of the Ahlus Sunah. There are hadith and even verses which from an outwardly and literal view seem to contradict each other, however, Scholars reconcile the meanings of such hadith and verses through numerous ways.

I will give you two examples;
1. A sahih hadith states that there are 5 things which no one knows about other than Allah where one of those things is what is in the womb.
Q. Can either of you two try to explain how this is possible when we have technology which enables us to see inside the womb before the child is born?

2. There are three sahih hadith which ascribe different ages to the Prophet at the time of his death. One hadith says he was 60, another 63 and the third says he was 65.
Q. How is it possible to have three different hadith which clearly contradict each other yet at the same time are all Sahih?

A basic explanation as to how the science of hadith works.
The scinece of hadith doesn't concern itself with having to follow a hadith or not. It only seeks to verify that so and so really did say such and such. You could have 10 hadith which contradict one another as well as the Qur'an, yet because it has been verified that someone actually did say it then it is still classed as Sahih, it is then the duty of the Fukaha (the science of Fiqh) to determine wether we should follow any of them or not.

Good post.


Hadith one about the 5 things that only Allah knows and part of those 5 things is the womb. Now the problem here is that that Allah gave angels the task of womb caring. So can we not conclude Angels knows about the womb(whether girl or boy). And can we not conclude computers tell us whether it is boy or girl.

As for when the boy or girl dies, where he/she dies and upon religion he/she dies, i cant say for sure if Allah shared that knowledge with the angels behind wombcare.

Hadith 2 is also problematic. They could be all 3 authentic in the sense of sahaba did really say that but they cant all three be true. So one of the three is truth.

 

[Gharib]

Good post.


Hadith one about the 5 things that only Allah knows and part of those 5 things is the womb. Now the problem here is that that Allah gave angels the task of womb caring. So can we not conclude Angels knows about the womb(whether girl or boy). And can we not conclude computers tell us whether it is boy or girl.

As for when the boy or girl dies, where he/she dies and upon religion he/she dies, i cant say for sure if Allah shared that knowledge with the angels behind wombcare.

Hadith 2 is also problematic. They could be all 3 authentic in the sense of sahaba did really say that but they cant all three be true. So one of the three is truth.

This is how the scholars explain hadith one;
The hadith doesn't say no one knows if the child is going to be a boy or a girl, it only says no one knows what is in the womb. So to be able to see with technology that the child is a boy or a girl doesn't contradict the Hadith. Technology cannot tell us how long the child will live, if they will be a good person or bad person etc etc. So from an outwardly and initial view of the hadith it seemed as though there was a contradiction, however, there is not.

As for the second example, all three hadith are Sahih because the Muhaditheen (scholars of hadith) verified that someone did really say those words, however, the scholars of Fiqh and Sirah study them and analyse them against other evidences and decide which is the correct age of the Prophet. For example, Abu Bakr was born three years after the Prophet and died three years after him. If Abu Bakr was 63 when he died the the Prophet was 63 too.

I hope that is clear insha Allah. And just remember that when you first look at any hadith they may look wrong or contradicting, but there is always a solution to it. It's like another example, there are two hadith about the lenght of the Prophets hair, one says they reached his shoulder the other one says he had short hair. So the scholars say that when he used to get his hair cut he used to cut them short and would leave them grow until they reached his shoulders but not go past them and cut them short again.

 

[MARCELLO]

Sometimes the hadith does not contradict as it simply is not mentioned in Koran.

See this one:

The hadeeth referred to by the questioner is a saheeh hadeeth, in which it says that some people came to Madeenah and fell sick. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them to drink the milk and urine of camels, and they recovered and grew fat. In the story it also says that they apostatized and killed the camel-herder, then the Muslims caught them and executed them. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2855) and Muslim (1671).

Ref: http://islamqa.info/en/83423

There is no passage mentioning about partaking and swallowing of camel urine in Koran. So what should a muslim do?

 

[peanutbutter63]

Well...Al-ḥamdu lillāh...as this website is one of the few places I know where those who favour the hadith (and treat the qur'an as secondary material) can feel secure and be reassured of not being lambasted (and harshly) for quoting such so-called sayings. The pity is, I have not seen any close analysis of the holy book itself from the classical Arabic (with special attention to accompanying grammar) the way real (university-grade) scholars have done so

 

[peanutbutter63]

..another hadith-lover....

 

[peanutbutter63]

A white guy (and I don't mean to be racist here) and a convert (just like me) who I assume did not have a childhood in a traditional Islamic country (just as I never did) saying...'reading the qur'an without the sunnah is like reading the book in a room with no lights and completely dark'....wow!....I'm at a loss for words...

I don't know and maybe it's just me, but it would indeed be a miracle if he (or anyone for that matter) could read a book in the dark, with no lights whatsoever. Maybe loving the hadith makes one forget how to change the lights. Perhaps an electrician is needed

 

[Pastek]

A white guy (and I don't mean to be racist here) and a convert (just like me) who I assume did not have a childhood in a traditional Islamic country (just as I never did) saying...'reading the qur'an without the sunnah is like reading the book in a room with no lights and completely dark'....wow!....I'm at a loss for words...

Sometimes a convert know much more things than a born muslim because he studied the religion he choose.
Like you can find many people from other religions who never studied their own or very little because they were born into it.
By the way i did not have a childhood in an islamic country too, but that guy (that i saw his story on youtube like many i think) had something quite similar as he said he grow up in a traditionnal christian home.

Anyway, i disagree with his sentence. Hadiths are important to understand some things (how to perform prayer, details about some people and conflicts etc), but saying it's like a "dark room" it's quite exagerated.

I give you some exemples :

9.49 And among them is he who says, "Permit me [to remain at home] and do not put me to trial." Unquestionably, into trial they have fallen. And indeed, Hell will encompass the disbelievers.

After reading the hadiths we know that the "trial" he talked about was the bizantines women (as an excuse to not fight).

Or when Joseph's brothers said concerning Benjamin and Joseph :

12.77 They said, "If he steals - a brother of his has stolen before." But Joseph kept it within himself and did not reveal it to them. He said, "You are worse in position, and Allah is most knowing of what you describe."

The hadiths explain that Joseph when younger stole a statut (that people used to pray) to play with it or take it away from them. (I think there's another version of that story).
So as Joseph and his little brother are from the same mother it was to make a difference between them :"If he steals - a brother of his has stolen before."
Without hadiths i didn't understood that verse for years.

Having the hadiths help to understand many verses. Do you reject them all ?