The Universe if Fine-Tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction.

[dust1n]

Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction. It's for this reason that I argue that the universe is fine-tuned for these things, and if such a tuning were tuned differently, none of these things exist.

Which brings up another point. Since the universe if fine-tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction, there must be some sort of agency behind this fine-tuning. I mean, for it to happen randomly, the chances would have to be so small. SO small. Therefore, it seems far more likely that God fine-tuned these universal parameters specifically so that AIDS, War and Destruction could exist.






Replace "AIDS, War and Destruction" with "people" or "life" and you will see how absurd the argument from fine-tuning is.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Good post. Now let's watch human cognitive bias and addiction to logical fallacy rear their ugly heads.

 

[Quintessence]

My apologies, but I don't see how replacing the traditional fine-tuning examples with things most people happen to not like renders it absurd.

 

[George-ananda]

Your false assumption is in thinking the physical life is all there is. This is a plane where birth/death, pleasure/pain, are intended by the designer to be experienced for relatively short temporary periods for the learning experiences of souls. This is just one part of a grand creation that is fantastic beyond our current capacity to comprehend. The beauty is in the advancement of souls not physical ease.

 

[Augustus]

Replace "AIDS, War and Destruction"...

But that's my favourite track off the 2nd Megadeth album

 

[Nietzsche]

My apologies, but I don't see how replacing the traditional fine-tuning examples with things most people happen to not like renders it absurd.

If you slightly change the parameters of the universe, odds are our type of intelligent life(hoomuns) won't come into existence. Thus, no war. No AIDs. Ect.

 

[dust1n]

My apologies, but I don't see how replacing the traditional fine-tuning examples with things most people happen to not like renders it absurd.

Because, logically speaking, if the argument with the "people" place in the equation was valid, than the validity of the argument would be true for an other object that shares the same necessary conditions.

"Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction. It's for this reason that I argue that the universe is fine-tuned for these things, and if such a tuning were tuned differently, none of these things exist.

Which brings up another point. Since the universe if fine-tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction, there must be some sort of agency behind this fine-tuning. I mean, for it to happen randomly, the chances would have to be so small. SO small. Therefore, it seems far more likely that God fine-tuned these universal parameters specifically so that AIDS, War and Destruction could exist."

1. Few physical constraints, if slighting changed, would render the existence of X impossible.
2. The likelihood of those few physical constraints being in place appears exceedingly improbable.
3. Therefore, the existence of X seems exceedingly improbable.
4. God is the most reasonable explanation for the exceedingly improbable existence of X.

If the reasoning was sound (not saying it is or isn't) there is no reason it would be so be X = human, and not X = AIDS, War and Destruction.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes, the universe is "fine tuned" for disease (which is just life of another form), war (which stems from survival instincts), and destruction (death is a natural process of life, and necessary for progression).

 

[dust1n]

Your false assumption is in thinking the physical life is all there is.

Not even sure how that relates.

This is a plane where birth/death, pleasure/pain, are intended by the designer to be experienced for relatively short temporary periods for the learning experiences of souls. This is just one part of a grand creation that is fantastic beyond our current capacity to comprehend. The beauty is in the advancement of souls not physical ease.

Whether that may be or not, if you argue that the physical world be finely tuned for humans implied to need for an agency as a means of cause, including a designer, it would be fallacious. You could make arguments for what you suggest on a number of different bases, but if it doesn't rely on a fine-tuning argument, it wouldn't very relevant to the OP.

 

[Parsimony]

It's fine-tuned for sand, fly swatters and cake too.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Since the universe if fine-tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction, there must be some sort of agency behind this fine-tuning. I mean, for it to happen randomly, the chances would have to be so small. SO small. Therefore, it seems far more likely that God fine-tuned these universal parameters specifically so that AIDS, War and Destruction could exist.

I don't think so. AIDs so far as I know may have started as a non-human simian virus that spread to humans from chimps, kind of in the same way ebola got to us from bats, or the plague from rats or cats or bats or whatever the latest theory says on that. I mean, large clusters of primates like us were bound to get viruses. We live right in the perfect temperature behavior for them to get us, and we are easily one of the more dirty class of mammals hygienically that there is.

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

I'm not sure what the OP is hoping to derive from his argument. I don't know if I quite like the usual Fine-Tuning arguments, but I'm not sure the OP says much against. It seems to simply lead to the usual so called POE questions about why God created a world with evil, where evil comes from, how much evil God can get rid of and what this says about his power, etc, and all possible solutions and discussions involved.

 

[chevron1]

Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction.

aids and hiv come from the time of the no time of the two times of own times. that's why it exists because it is th eonly disease that no one wants to help and some want to propagate by touching lives that would have been the best life without touching the best times of our lives.

 

[Revoltingest]

So if Suskind is right, the shapes of the extra dimensions (per string theory) in
some other universe might create physical properties which eliminate AIDS & war.
Great as that might be, it risks also creating a universe without bacon.

Hmmm.....on the bright side, there might be kosher & halal bacon too!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction. It's for this reason that I argue that the universe is fine-tuned for these things, and if such a tuning were tuned differently, none of these things exist.

OK ...

 

[Revoltingest]

Everyone knows that there are a few physical constants that if they were even slightly changed, would result in an entirely different universe, and thus, no AIDS, War and Destruction. It's for this reason that I argue that the universe is fine-tuned for these things, and if such a tuning were tuned differently, none of these things exist.
Which brings up another point. Since the universe if fine-tuned for AIDS, War and Destruction, there must be some sort of agency behind this fine-tuning. I mean, for it to happen randomly, the chances would have to be so small. SO small. Therefore, it seems far more likely that God fine-tuned these universal parameters specifically so that AIDS, War and Destruction could exist.
Replace "AIDS, War and Destruction" with "people" or "life" and you will see how absurd the argument from fine-tuning is.

The fine tuning argument is not so easily dismissed.
I speculate that any universe capable of supporting life, the problems of disease,
war, carnage, & annoying politicians are always an emergent property of life.

 

[dust1n]

I don't think so. AIDs so far as I know may have started as a non-human simian virus that spread to humans from chimps, kind of in the same way ebola got to us from bats, or the plague from rats or cats or bats or whatever the latest theory says on that. I mean, large clusters of primates like us were bound to get viruses. We live right in the perfect temperature behavior for them to get us, and we are easily one of the more dirty class of mammals hygienically that there is.

That's an incredibly sophisticated tuning for AID's to exist. Do you think it's per chance that such a finely-tuned AID's world could be created?

 

[dust1n]

I'm not sure what the OP is hoping to derive from his argument. I don't know if I quite like the usual Fine-Tuning arguments, but I'm not sure the OP says much against. It seems to simply lead to the usual so called POE questions about why God created a world with evil, where evil comes from, how much evil God can get rid of and what this says about his power, etc, and all possible solutions and discussions involved.

The argument is to demonstrate that the validity of the fine-tuning argument for humans by creator is equal to fine-tuning argument for any other given existing object.

 

[dust1n]

aids and hiv come from the time of the no time of the two times of own times.

Wait, whoa... huh?

 

[dust1n]

So if Suskind is right, the shapes of the extra dimensions (per string theory) in
some other universe might create physical properties which eliminate AIDS & war.
Great as that might be, it risks also creating a universe without bacon.

Hmmm.....on the bright side, there might be kosher & halal bacon too!

Yeah, but then you have a problem where a creator has to create an infinite number of worlds of baconless torture and justify it to the set of infinite number of pleasant universes.

The fine tuning argument is not so easily dismissed.
I speculate that any universe capable of supporting life, the problems of disease,
war, carnage, & annoying politicians are always an emergent property of life.

Any universe capable of supporting AID's is going to encounter all kinds of things. Rocks. Lifeforms. Politics. Drug Use. Love and Life and Happiness. But all of that stuff is just further necessary conditions to reach a complete fine tuning.