The Question Islam and Christianity Can't Answer

[jimb]

Empty false claims from the Bible that can't be demonstrated to be true. Nothing of any moral substance in all of that. Condemnation from falsehood is all you got there.

That is nothing more than your opinion, and it's clearly wrong.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Empty false claims from the Bible that can't be demonstrated to be true. Nothing of any moral substance in all of that. Condemnation from falsehood is all you got there.

That is nothing more than your opinion, and it's clearly wrong.

It's also my opinion (more or less) and that of millions of others, although I would have worded it differently:

The Bible is full of false claims (there was a global flood) and unfalsifiable claims (there is a god).

And I consider it a poor source for moral instruction and life advice. The only advice in it I agree with is Golden Rule stuff (be kind, don't lie or steal, etc..) and that is mixed in with a lot of what I consider bad advice (love enemies, faith is a virtue, the wisdom of the world is foolishness, etc.).

 

[osgart]

That is nothing more than your opinion, and it's clearly wrong.

Declaring something to be so does not make something true. The Bible is full of declarative claims that it doesn't back up with any kind of reasoning, proof, nor evidence.

Anyone can claim to be all mighty judge, and juror over mankind's fate. That's a claim of absolute truth. So you need more than evidence. You need 100% positive proof these things are true. So what is your irrefutable reasoning in those declarations you mentioned?

 

[jimb]

Declaring something to be so does not make something true. The Bible is full of declarative claims that it doesn't back up with any kind of reasoning, proof, nor evidence.

Anyone can claim to be all mighty judge, and juror over mankind's fate. That's a claim of absolute truth. So you need more than evidence. You need 100% positive proof these things are true. So what is your irrefutable reasoning in those declarations you mentioned?

"The Bible is full of declarative claims that it doesn't back up with any kind of reasoning, proof, nor evidence". => No kidding! <= One accepts what the Bible says by faith. That is the basis for the whole thing! Do you seriously not realize that?

That is the exact opposite of your "100% positive proof".

Read this carefully (if you want to understand the fundamental principle of faith): "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". Hebrews 11:1

"Reasoning proof" is the exact opposite. Until you understand that, there is no point in continuing the discussion.

 

[osgart]

"The Bible is full of declarative claims that it doesn't back up with any kind of reasoning, proof, nor evidence". => No kidding! <= One accepts what the Bible says by faith. That is the basis for the whole thing! Do you seriously not realize that?

That is the exact opposite of your "100% positive proof".

Read this carefully (if you want to understand the fundamental principle of faith): "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". Hebrews 11:1

"Reasoning proof" is the exact opposite. Until you understand that, there is no point in continuing the discussion.

Blind faith it is then. Then you are saying you really don't know. That's like jumping into a pool, eyes closed, hoping for water where there is none. Good luck with that!

 

[jimb]

Blind faith it is then. Then you are saying you really don't know. That's like jumping into a pool, eyes closed, hoping for water where there is none. Good luck with that!

Blind faith? LOL!

Read this again: Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". Hebrews 11:1

Get it? Assurance and conviction. It's just the opposite of what you think.

Your analogy is stupid!

 

[osgart]

Blind faith? LOL!

Read this again: Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". Hebrews 11:1

Get it? Assurance and conviction. It's just the opposite of what you think.

Your analogy is stupid!

Who's assuring and convicting? Zarahustra, Allah, Yahweh, your own mind, the Holy Spirit?

God is God because God says so. End of story? Sufficient?

People have hopes and assurances that are false. Convictions can be false as well.

You discard, reason, evidence, and proof necessities like those things are rubbish, and hopeless paths to knowledge.

 

[jimb]

Who's assuring and convicting? Zarahustra, Allah, Yahweh, your own mind, the Holy Spirit?

God is God because God says so. End of story? Sufficient?

People have hopes and assurances that are false. Convictions can be false as well.

You discard, reason, evidence, and proof necessities like those things are rubbish, and hopeless paths to knowledge.

Clearly you are confused and lost. The problem probably lies because of your lack of understanding of "knowledge"

I believe God, not only from reading the Bible but also from personal experience. You and your faithless theories are no match for God almighty!

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

"The Bible is full of declarative claims that it doesn't back up with any kind of reasoning, proof, nor evidence". => No kidding! <= One accepts what the Bible says by faith. That is the basis for the whole thing! Do you seriously not realize that? That is the exact opposite of your "100% positive proof".

We all realize that faith is unjustified belief (insufficiently evidenced) and doesn't become justified belief until sufficient supporting evidence is presented.

You see that as virtuous thinking, but the critical thinker sees it as logical error (faith-based beliefs are either bare claims or non sequiturs at the end of an argument) and the quickest way to accumulate false and unfalsifiable beliefs.

Read this carefully (if you want to understand the fundamental principle of faith): "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". Hebrews 11:1 "Reasoning proof" is the exact opposite. Until you understand that, there is no point in continuing the discussion.

Why do you think that anybody here is having trouble with those ideas? Osgard, to whom you were replying there, doesn't seem to.

You and your faithless theories are no match for God almighty!

I'd say that religion is no match for empiricism. Just look at how few useful ideas religion has generated and how many come from evidence properly understood. I would dare say that every useful idea one has such as how to fix a car or where to find good Italian food was learned through experience, and that none of the religious beliefs acquired by faith can be used for anything except perhaps psychological comforting if one can be comforted by such ideas. I can't, but also, I'm not uncomfortable being an atheist.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Unless you're a Muslim, we should try to get together for a cup of molten brass when we get there.

The Quran saying brass about Hell is a very specific thing to say.
Also like saying cattle about Hell is a very specific thing to say.

It's like I said here earlier about the Quran connecting cattle to hell.

The Quran speaks of those that are as Cattle.
Hell is connected to Cattle.


And We shall drive the sinners to Hell, like thirsty cattle driven down to water,- 19:86

Eat (for yourselves) and pasture your cattle: verily, in this are Signs for men endued with understanding. 20:54

Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path. 25:44

Verily Allah will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; while those who reject Allah will enjoy (this world) and eat as cattle eat; and the Fire will be their abode. 47:12

Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning). 7:179



The Quran clearly knows the difference between Cattle, Goats, and Sheep.

The Bible speaks of the Cattle, Goats, and Sheep Judgements.

"And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats". Ezekiel 34:17

Cattle - Goats - Sheep

Its another three position layer which overlaps with what I said earlier.

Brass is as the same thing.
Brass is one of these three things:

"To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass". Exodus.


Brass is the lowest, same position as cattle.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

It is as a measurement of value.

I can see the Quran is putting its words in the right places. The places I learned from the Bible prophets.
That is why I logically accept Muhammads specific description of Hell.

 

[let me stay anonymous]

maybe in our biography book god wrote as u wish and destiny is divided into two halves like its in our hands to do good or evil WHY IS ALWAYS MAYBEEEEE UGH