The Island

[Neo Deist]

I have a solution for the overcrowded prisons in the USA:

The US owns several islands that are out in the middle of the ocean, that are surrounded by sharks, can be watched via satellite, and patrolled by the Navy or Coast Guard. Here's my idea...

Take all violent offenders (murderers, rapists, child molesters, lawyers etc.) and send them to that island. Once there, they will be responsible or growing and maintaining their own food (seeds and grain can be air-dropped), they will have to build their own shelters (huts, tepees, tents, whatever), and they will remain on the island until they die (no more capital punishment/death penalty in any state). They will not have cable TV, Gold's Gym equivalent weight rooms, free buffets, AC, or access to the law abiding citizens in society.

If anyone makes an escape attempt, they will be shot out of the water by the marine patrols, no questions asked. Their bodies become fish food. If you don't want to get shot, stay on the island. If you don't want to be sent to the island, don't commit a violent crime.

Of course, we might need more than one island to get things rolling.

 

[Curious George]

I have a solution for the overcrowded prisons in the USA:

The US owns several islands that are out in the middle of the ocean, that are surrounded by sharks, can be watched via satellite, and patrolled by the Navy or Coast Guard. Here's my idea...

Take all violent offenders (murderers, rapists, child molesters, lawyers etc.) and send them to that island. Once there, they will be responsible or growing and maintaining their own food (seeds and grain can be air-dropped), they will have to build their own shelters (huts, tepees, tents, whatever), and they will remain on the island until they die (no more capital punishment/death penalty in any state). They will not have cable TV, Gold's Gym equivalent weight rooms, free buffets, AC, or access to the law abiding citizens in society.

If anyone makes an escape attempt, they will be shot out of the water by the marine patrols, no questions asked. Their bodies become fish food. If you don't want to get shot, stay on the island. If you don't want to be sent to the island, don't commit a violent crime.

Of course, we might need more than one island to get things rolling.

Oh the laundry list of reasons this is not a viable solution....

I know it is hard for some people to look at prisoners as people, especially the worst offenders, but they are. They are people, they are citizens, their families are people and more often than not, citizens as well.

Perhaps it is fun to fantasize about such untenable, unrealistic, uncivilized "solutions" but beyond fodder for your mental...musings, such a solution serves little purpose.

 

[psychoslice]

You are a very happy person aren't you, its far more complicated than that my friend.

 

[Neo Deist]

I know it is hard for some people to look at prisoners as people, especially the worst offenders, but they are. They are people, they are citizens...

They can still be citizens...of the penal island.

You may be fine with having a child molesting murderer living next door to you, but I am not. They gave up their right to be members of society when they committed violent crime X.

 

[Curious George]

They can still be citizens...of the penal island.

You may be fine with having a child molesting murderer living next door to you, but I am not. They gave up their right to be members of society when they committed violent crime X.

Lol, such a black and white world, with you. People are good or bad, bad guys need to be on an island or they will be your next door neighbor.

If you think we have the right to permanently deprive someone of their rights, for doing violent crime x, make the argument.
Do you live in constant fear? I guess I am just not afraid, and that is the difference.

 

[Laika]

Take all violent offenders (murderers, rapists, child molesters, lawyers etc.) and send them to that island.

lol.

 

[Neo Deist]

If you think we have the right to permanently deprive someone of their rights, for doing violent crime x, make the argument.

Violent criminals don't commit just one crime and then turn a new leaf.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/pages/welcome.aspx

71% of violent offenders will commit another violent crime after they are released, usually within 1-5 years (and these are the one that got caught...again). That is another victim who was murdered, raped, feloniously assaulted, etc. In the interest of public safety for law abiding citizens, they do not need to be released back into society. Argument made.

Tree huggers can go to the island with them and "reform" them if they like.

Do you live in constant fear? I guess I am just not afraid, and that is the difference.

Uhm, no. I am a cop in a high crime city and face them every day.

 

[Curious George]

Violent criminals don't commit just one crime and then turn a new leaf.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/pages/welcome.aspx

71% of violent offenders will commit another violent crime after they are released, usually within 1-5 years (and these are the one that got caught...again). That is another victim who was murdered, raped, feloniously assaulted, etc. In the interest of public safety for law abiding citizens, they do not need to be released back into society. Argument made.

Tree huggers can go to the island with them and "reform" them if they like.



Uhm, no. I am a cop in a high crime city and face them every day.

71%? That is all. Hell, let's give you 90% recidivism. That 10% alone makes your cry over inclusive and not capable of passing the strict scrutiny needed to override the rights. Sounds like prison reform is what you really want. Perhaps, we should be aiming for a more rehabilitative and less retributive model of penal justice if that is your gripe. You want safer communities? we should be funding more preventative programs. See there we have a happy medium.

And that you "face" your fears does not make you less afraid.

 

[Neo Deist]

71%? That is all. Hell, let's give you 90% recidivism. That 10% alone makes your cry over inclusive and not capable of passing the strict scrutiny needed to override the rights. Sounds like prison reform is what you really want. Perhaps, we should be aiming for a more rehabilitative and less retributive model of penal justice if that is your gripe. You want safer communities? we should be funding more preventative programs. See there we have a happy medium.

And that you "face" your fears does not make you less afraid.

In your world where rehab does not work for 7 out of every 10, you would release them and have them prey upon future victims.

In my world, society would be safe from them. I'll stick to my world.

 

[Curious George]

In your world where rehab does not work for 7 out of every 10, you would release them and have them prey upon future victims.

In my world, society would be safe from them. I'll stick to my world.

That rehab actually exists is a joke in and of itself. You can keep your world wherein you are constantly trying to throw the water from you sinking ship overboard, I will take my world where the leaks are managed.

 

[Neo Deist]

That rehab actually exists is a joke in and of itself. You can keep your world wherein you are constantly trying to throw the water from you sinking ship overboard, I will take my world where the leaks are managed.

I am sure that the government would have intervention programs for the Islanders. People like you could go there, hold their hands, sing "Kum Bah Yah" with them and lead them on nature walks.

 

[Curious George]

I am sure that the government would have intervention programs for the Islanders. People like you could go there, hold their hands, sing "Kum Bah Yah" with them and lead them on nature walks.

Again with the black and white. Because I don't think criminals are less than people or because I object to your cruel form of punishment somehow I am the type to sing kum bai yah with them? Somehow I am not "tough on crime?" This makes no sense. I am sorry you disagree with fundamental principles of our government, but if you wish to change them you will have to present a coherent argument. So far you have just espoused the "kill 'em all" argument in trite cliche. As I said before this argument serves only cathartic release as you fantasize about how to treat the less-than- you people of the world. While it does illustrate the fear that people such as yourself are managing, your stress does not constitute sufficient reason to negate others rights.

 

[Neo Deist]

See post #7 above.

Done here.

 

[BSM1]

Lol, such a black and white world, with you. People are good or bad, bad guys need to be on an island or they will be your next door neighbor.

If you think we have the right to permanently deprive someone of their rights, for doing violent crime x, make the argument.
Do you live in constant fear? I guess I am just not afraid, and that is the difference.

We do that now. Convicted felons do not have the right to vote, nor the right to firearms. Convicted child molesters do not have the right to live anywhere they want and they lose the right to be near a school, for instance.

 

[Revoltingest]

Take all violent offenders (murderers, rapists, child molesters, lawyers etc.) and send them to that island. Once there, they will be responsible or growing and maintaining their own food (seeds and grain can be air-dropped), they will have to build their own shelters (huts, tepees, tents, whatever), and they will remain on the island until they die (no more capital punishment/death penalty in any state). They will not have cable TV, Gold's Gym equivalent weight rooms, free buffets, AC, or access to the law abiding citizens in society.

A problem is that felons receive sentences which are intended to be the sole punishment for the crime.
Your plan leaves them subject to unimpeded violence from others & no medical care.
It makes punishment more a matter of luck, ie, some will thrive, & some will die.

 

[Neo Deist]

A problem is that felons receive sentences which are intended to be the sole punishment for the crime.
Your plan leaves them subject to unimpeded violence from others & no medical care.
It makes punishment more a matter of luck, ie, some will thrive, & some will die.

Then I guess there would be a big incentive for not committing a violent crime, wouldn't there?

 

[Revoltingest]

Then I guess there would be a big incentive for not committing a violent crime, wouldn't there?

Introducing an even larger random element into punishment would likely be found unconstitutional.

 

[BSM1]

Then I guess there would be a big incentive for not committing a violent crime, wouldn't there?

Hasn't stop them yet.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

People don't seem to put much effort into rehabilitation, which is better overall as jail is basically a glorified time out.

I'd let out all of the people who did drugs and didn't commit a hard crime, such as with marijuana and stuff like that. Heavy drug users who use hard drugs need help, not to be put in jail. That alone will make prisons less crowded as a lot of them are from drug users who didn't commit a hard crime.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I have a solution for the overcrowded prisons in the USA:

The US owns several islands that are out in the middle of the ocean, that are surrounded by sharks, can be watched via satellite, and patrolled by the Navy or Coast Guard. Here's my idea...

Take all violent offenders (murderers, rapists, child molesters, lawyers etc.) and send them to that island. Once there, they will be responsible or growing and maintaining their own food (seeds and grain can be air-dropped), they will have to build their own shelters (huts, tepees, tents, whatever), and they will remain on the island until they die (no more capital punishment/death penalty in any state). They will not have cable TV, Gold's Gym equivalent weight rooms, free buffets, AC, or access to the law abiding citizens in society.

If anyone makes an escape attempt, they will be shot out of the water by the marine patrols, no questions asked. Their bodies become fish food. If you don't want to get shot, stay on the island. If you don't want to be sent to the island, don't commit a violent crime.

Of course, we might need more than one island to get things rolling.

Why not simply make prisons that focus on rehabilitation and significantly reduce the amount of time if not remove "time" all together from petty crimes that can stop the overcrowding of prisons. Give them rights as prisoners and treat them as people not objects. Have you seen some European prisons? Some are nicer than my first apartment. In many countries you get a summons to go to prison after your trial. You literally get a date in which you will start your sentence and you get to just do whatever till then. Usually its a few weeks to a month out so that you can get your affairs in order prior to going to the prison unless it is a violent crime such as murder.

Then we should start dismantling the parts of our society where these crimes are fostered and developed and re-construct it in a way that should not foster an develop violent criminal behavior.