The Dangers Of Making Art Which Looks Like Trash

[Revoltingest]

Overzealous cleaner ruins £690,000 artwork that she thought was dirty | Art and design | The Guardian

In 2004, a cleaner at Tate Britain in London threw away part of a work by another German artist, Gustav Metzger, after mistaking it for rubbish. The cleaner failed to realise that a plastic bag containing discarded paper and cardboard was an integral part of Recreation of First Public Demonstration of Auto-Destructive Art, and not just some litter. The bag was later recovered, but it was too damaged to display, so Metzger replaced it with another bag.

It's truly amazing the tremendous monetary value assigned to junk & trash elevated to 'art'.

 

[Curious George]

Overzealous cleaner ruins £690,000 artwork that she thought was dirty | Art and design | The Guardian

It's truly amazing the tremendous monetary value assigned to junk & trash elevated to 'art'.

Capitalism at its finest. I thought you would be despondent that someone would not consider the labor and work of another.

 

[Revoltingest]

Capitalism at its finest. I thought you would be despondent that someone would not consider the labor and work of another.

What's at work here is pretense of value for works taking little effort & talent.
I scoff at this.
Insurance companies no doubt charge premiums accordingly.

 

[Curious George]

What's at work here is pretense of value for works taking little effort & talent.
I scoff at this.
Insurance companies no doubt charge premiums accordingly.

And I scoff at self help books, but that doesn't make this not capitalism.

Just warning you to be careful, your commie is showing, and unless you're wirey and preface it with a "how you doing" some folks might take offense.

 

[Revoltingest]

And I scoff at self help books, but that doesn't make this not capitalism.
Just warning you to be careful, your commie is showing, and unless you're wirey and preface it with a "how you doing" some folks might take offense.

I never said it didn't occur within a capitalist economy.
I'm focusing on the dangers of making art which looks like trash.....
with an undercurrent of disrespecting art which has excessive monetary value attributed to it.

 

[Bunyip]

And then there's making trash into art that doesn't look like trash. An old steel strap, wooden window blind and bathroom fittings. Now to finish it.

 

[Revoltingest]

View attachment 10146
And then there's making trash into art that doesn't look like trash. An old steel strap, wooden window blind and bathroom fittings. Now to finish it.

Clever!

 

[Curious George]

I never said it didn't occur within a capitalist economy.
I'm focusing on the dangers of making art which looks like trash.....
with an undercurrent of disrespecting art which has excessive monetary value attributed to it.

That monetary value cannot be excessive, it is whatever the free market says it is. Unless you think there are some regulations that are somehow inflating this value.

 

[Revoltingest]

That monetary value cannot be excessive, it is whatever the free market says it is. Unless you think there are some regulations that are somehow inflating this value.

This isn't a real market quite often.
People can insure works for an exaggerated amount, ie, more than it would fetch if put up for sale.
(There are complexities in over-insuring something, & then making a claim.)
Of course, there are some works which actually sell for surprising amounts.
Tracey Emin's 'My Bed' Sells for $3.77 Million
In this case, multiple bidders in a free market determined value.

 

[Willamena]

Overzealous cleaner ruins £690,000 artwork that she thought was dirty | Art and design | The Guardian

It's truly amazing the tremendous monetary value assigned to junk & trash elevated to 'art'.

Yes, a stark contrast to the self-evident worth of paintings by Lucy.

 

[Curious George]

This isn't a real market quite often.
People can insure works for an exaggerated amount, ie, more than it would fetch if put up for sale.
(There are complexities in over-insuring something, & then making a claim.)
Of course, there are some works which actually sell for surprising amounts.
Tracey Emin's 'My Bed' Sells for $3.77 Million
In this case, multiple bidders in a free market determined value.

And what created the insurance companies that would contract for such? Sure there are insurance regulations, but are you really arguing for more and limiting these people's right to contract freely? You must remember when you purchase art and insure it, you are not only insuring the piece of art at whatever price it fetched, but also insuring you future investment.

If you had a tractor that cost five dollars but was guaranteed by most experts to fetch 500 tomorrow and I broke it today, I bet you would want more than 5 dollars.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, a stark contrast to the self-evident worth of paintings by Lucy.

Aye, Lucy's paintings are quite reasonably priced.

You know what's coming, I presume.


Wait for it......


Here it is......


She works for peanuts!

 

[Revoltingest]

And what created the insurance companies that would contract for such? Sure there are insurance regulations, but are you really arguing for more and limiting these people's right to contract freely?

You can answer your own question.
Hint:
Did you see me argue for limiting their right to contract?

 

[Curious George]

You can answer your own question.
Hint:
Did you see me argue for limiting their right to contract?

Then that is the value they are worth as determined by the market under free made contracts. This is the free market at work.

 

[Revoltingest]

Then that is the value they are worth as determined by the market under free made contracts. This is the free market at work.

Insured amounts do not determine value.
Take real estate for example.
I've bought insurance & I've appraised real estate.
The former has no bearing on the latter.
(But the latter is necessary in deciding how much of the former to buy.)
Auction price is a much better determiner of value.
(But even that can be inaccurate in some markets, due to volatility.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And I scoff at self help books, but that doesn't make this not capitalism.

Just warning you to be careful, your commie is showing, and unless you're wirey and preface it with a "how you doing" some folks might take offense.

Well, I can now say I'm not the only one who has pointed this out. I think he may have a commie seedling in him that is starting to take root.

 

[Curious George]

Insured amounts do not determine value.
Take real estate for example.
I've bought insurance & I've appraised real estate.
The former has no bearing on the latter.
(But the latter is necessary in deciding how much of the former to buy.)
Auction price is a much better determiner of value.
(But even that can be inaccurate in some markets, due to volatility.)

Value is whatever people in that instance contract for...whether it is auction or insurance or internet sales...this is the free market. That insurance incorporates different cost benefit analysis than those participating in auction means nothing. They are different contracts. But both describe value assigned by a free market system.

 

[Revoltingest]

Value is whatever people in that instance contract for...whether it is auction or insurance or internet sales...this is the free market. That insurance incorporates different cost benefit analysis than those participating in auction means nothing. They are different contracts. But both describe value assigned by a free market system.

Nah....there are many ways to define "value".
That they're all called "value" doesn't make them the same.
Insured value is not necessarily the same as market value.
Other kinds of value....
- Salvage
- Scrap
- State equalized
- Basis
- Depreciated
- Estate
- Forced sale
They can all be very very different.

 

[Curious George]

Nah....there are many ways to define "value".
That they're all called "value" doesn't make them the same.
Insured value is not necessarily the same as market value.
Other kinds of value....
- Salvage
- Scrap
- State equalized
- Basis
- Depreciated
- Estate
- Forced sale
They can all be very very different.

Are you suggesting that "insurance value" is not a product of the free market?

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you suggesting that "insurance value" is not a product of the free market?

It depends upon the particular market.
In real estate it's generally pretty close in order to avoid co-insurance or paying too high a premium.
In art.....there appears to be greater discrepancy between insured & market value.

It seems you're arguing that there's a free market.
But no one is arguing against you.