Taqiyya

[*Anne*]

I wanted to post this here instead of the Islam DIR because, in addition to Muslims, I'd like to hear from non-Muslims educated on the subject as well.

I've run across the term a few times now, spelling it as both "taqqiya" and "taqiyya." May we discuss exactly what this means?

Thanks.

PS. No fighting! :tsk: I have a ruler here, and I know how to use it. *thwack!s Revoltingest to demonstrate.*

 

[neves]

to be honest, never heard of it before....

any hints?

 

[Antifascist_Action]

I wanted to post this here instead of the Islam DIR because, in addition to Muslims, I'd like to hear from non-Muslims educated on the subject as well.

I've run across the term a few times now, spelling it as both "taqqiya" and "taqiyya." May we discuss exactly what this means?

Thanks.

PS. No fighting! :tsk: I have a ruler here, and I know how to use it. *thwack!s Revoltingest to demonstrate.*

Taquiyya is essetially lying for Islam. It's a principle that allows Muslims to lie to, cheat, and decieve non-Muslims unconditionally. Of course, As neves' response shows, most Muslims might deny that Taquiyya exists, which is quite Ironic. Putting into use the very same principle to deny that it exists. So on another level it's somewhat like an Orwellian concept of doublethink.

Muslims and Islamists practice Taquiyya in contemporary political debates. For instance, this accusation has been levelled by Fouad Ajami at the theologian Tariq Ramadan, by James Woolsey at Islamist terrorists, and by Michael Rubin and others at the government of Iran.

Links:

Islam Watch - "Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah" by Warner MacKenzie
TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and the Truth
Fitzgerald: Islam for Infidels, Part One - Jihad Watch
How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism :: Middle East Quarterly
Taqiyya and Kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic Terrorism - Reader comments at Daniel Pipes
The Secular Outpost: Taqiyya
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Lying_for_Islam_(taqiyya)
Comparative Index to Islam : TAQIYA; TAQIYYA; TAQIYYAH
Faith Freedom International :: View topic - Taqiyya and kitman - lying for the sake of Islam
Youtube Video: [youtube]CvlvS2a2AVE[/youtube]
YouTube - Taqiyya - Lying For Islam

Some examples of taquiyya:

• Claiming that they are a "peaceful people" and Islam is a peaceful religion
• Muslims claiming that Islam treats women "with respect"
• Muslims who pretend to respect democracy, while holding bigoted ideas
• Muslims with dual loyalties, i.e. more loyal to Islam than their host countries (Concealing a hidden agenda)
• Those who claim that Islam is tolerant

 

[*Anne*]

Hi Neves,

Sure. Here's a one explanation via Wiki: Taqiyya

 

[neves]

Hi Neves,

Sure. Here's a one explanation via Wiki: Taqiyya

The wiki article is kinda confusing... but from what I gathered the word means lying...

 

[neves]

Taquiyya is essetially lying for Islam. It's a principle that allows Muslims to lie to, cheat, and decieve non-Muslims unconditionally. Of course, As neves' response shows, most Muslims might deny that Taquiyya exists, which is quite Ironic. Putting into use the very same principle to deny that it exists. So on another level it's somewhat like an Orwellian concept of doublethink.

Muslims and Islamists practice Taquiyya in contemporary political debates. For instance, this accusation has been levelled by Fouad Ajami at the theologian Tariq Ramadan, by James Woolsey at Islamist terrorists, and by Michael Rubin and others at the government of Iran.

Links:

Islam Watch - "Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah" by Warner MacKenzie
TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and the Truth
Fitzgerald: Islam for Infidels, Part One - Jihad Watch
How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism :: Middle East Quarterly
Taqiyya and Kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic Terrorism - Reader comments at Daniel Pipes
The Secular Outpost: Taqiyya
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Lying_for_Islam_(taqiyya)
Comparative Index to Islam : TAQIYA; TAQIYYA; TAQIYYAH
Faith Freedom International :: View topic - Taqiyya and kitman - lying for the sake of Islam
Youtube Video: [youtube]CvlvS2a2AVE[/youtube]
YouTube - Taqiyya - Lying For Islam

Some examples of taquiyya:

• Claiming that they are a "peaceful people" and Islam is a peaceful religion
• Muslims claiming that Islam treats women "with respect"
• Muslims who pretend to respect democracy, while holding bigoted ideas
• Muslims with dual loyalties, i.e. more loyal to Islam than their host countries (Concealing a hidden agenda)
• Those who claim that Islam is tolerant

wow way to go making a great agenda out of one word...Hey here another Arabic word you can go wild with..."Istih-taar".... have fun...

 

[YmirGF]

I am more prone to describe taqiyya as diplomacy as per the following:

al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part I)
al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part II)
al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part III)

Let me know if there is anything else you need to know on the subject.

 

[YmirGF]

The wiki article is kinda confusing... but from what I gathered the word means lying...

Agreed. The Wiki article is crap.

 

[xkatz]

Taquiyya is essetially lying for Islam. It's a principle that allows Muslims to lie to, cheat, and decieve non-Muslims unconditionally. Of course, As neves' response shows, most Muslims might deny that Taquiyya exists, which is quite Ironic. Putting into use the very same principle to deny that it exists. So on another level it's somewhat like an Orwellian concept of doublethink.

Muslims and Islamists practice Taquiyya in contemporary political debates. For instance, this accusation has been levelled by Fouad Ajami at the theologian Tariq Ramadan, by James Woolsey at Islamist terrorists, and by Michael Rubin and others at the government of Iran.

Links:

Islam Watch - "Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah" by Warner MacKenzie
TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and the Truth
Fitzgerald: Islam for Infidels, Part One - Jihad Watch
How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism :: Middle East Quarterly
Taqiyya and Kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic Terrorism - Reader comments at Daniel Pipes
The Secular Outpost: Taqiyya
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Lying_for_Islam_(taqiyya)
Comparative Index to Islam : TAQIYA; TAQIYYA; TAQIYYAH
Faith Freedom International :: View topic - Taqiyya and kitman - lying for the sake of Islam
Youtube Video: [youtube]CvlvS2a2AVE[/youtube]
YouTube - Taqiyya - Lying For Islam

Some examples of taquiyya:

• Claiming that they are a "peaceful people" and Islam is a peaceful religion
• Muslims claiming that Islam treats women "with respect"
• Muslims who pretend to respect democracy, while holding bigoted ideas
• Muslims with dual loyalties, i.e. more loyal to Islam than their host countries (Concealing a hidden agenda)
• Those who claim that Islam is tolerant

Taqiyya means to conceal one faith's (in this case, Islam) when under threat and/or under persecution, not whatever the heck you just said.

 

[neves]

I am more prone to describe taqiyya as diplomacy as per the following:

al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part I)
al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part II)
al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part III)

Let me know if there is anything else you need to know on the subject.

a comprehensive article ... thank you... just started learning about it myself ...

 

[YmirGF]

Islam Watch - "Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah" by Warner MacKenzie
TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and the Truth
Fitzgerald: Islam for Infidels, Part One - Jihad Watch
How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism :: Middle East Quarterly
Taqiyya and Kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic Terrorism - Reader comments at Daniel Pipes
The Secular Outpost: Taqiyya
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Lying_for_Islam_(taqiyya)
Comparative Index to Islam : TAQIYA; TAQIYYA; TAQIYYAH
Faith Freedom International :: View topic - Taqiyya and kitman - lying for the sake of Islam

It is never very wise to use links from what are obviously anti-Islam web sites. There is FAR better information on authentic Muslim sites. There is no need to cast aspersions.

 

[Shia Islam]

I'll present Shia view in Taqiyya in another reply,

What I want to say here is that without Taqqiyaa there will not be Shia Islam today,
Can any shia Muslim person go to Saudi Arabia and announce his belief?
They will cut his head...

And countless of Shia Muslims have been beheaded in Saudi Arabia just by announcing their beliefs.

In Shia Islam Taqqiya is permissible only under certain conditions as I'll show later

Regards

 

[xkatz]

I'll present Shia view in Taqiyya in another reply,

What I want to say here is that without Taqqiyaa there will not be Shia Islam today,
Can any shia Muslim person go to Saudi Arabia and announce his belief?
They will cut his head...

And countless of Shia Muslims have been beheaded in Saudi Arabia just by announcing their beliefs.

In Shia Islam Taqqiya is permissible only under certain conditions as I'll show later

Regards

Thank you for your take, Shia. I am confused however; is the concept of Taqiyya unique to Shia Islam or do other sects employ this concept? I ask this b/c the Wikipedia article seems to imply Taqiyya is a soley Shia concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

 

[Antifascist_Action]

It is never very wise to use links from what are obviously anti-Islam web sites. There is FAR better information on authentic Muslim sites. There is no need to cast aspersions.

I disagree. Pro-Muslim sites will never tell the full truth about Islam, since their goal is fundamentally, to promote the religion. Many sites do not tell the full truth. I'm sure if you went to the former Klansman David Duke's website (assuming the moron is even capable of using the internet) I doubt you'd find information on his involvement in the KKK. Instead he'd try to look moderate. On the Vatican Website there's no information on the Reichskonkordat or the Catholic involvement in the Holocaust (Hitler was a devout Catholic). Nor will you find information on Tiananmen Square or the murder of 1.2 million Tibetans on the Chinese Government's website.

Those sites are unreliable because they were set up by advocates of certain organizations to promote a particular viewpoint. And just as I wouldn't trust a pro-Catholic website or a pro-Chinese website to tell me the full, unbiased story on Catholicism or China, it doesn't make much sense to reference a pro-Islamic website on something like taquiya, which normally is kept a secret until you convert. Thus, the Muslims would have every reason to lie about taquiyya, since it's within their doctrine to do so, while non-Muslims really have no reason to lie.

 

[*Anne*]

I appreciate the links and responses so far. Thank you!

 

[TashaN]

I'll present Shia view in Taqiyya in another reply,

What I want to say here is that without Taqqiyaa there will not be Shia Islam today,
Can any shia Muslim person go to Saudi Arabia and announce his belief?
They will cut his head...

And countless of Shia Muslims have been beheaded in Saudi Arabia just by announcing their beliefs.

In Shia Islam Taqqiya is permissible only under certain conditions as I'll show later

Regards

Rubbish.

I live in Saudi Arabia and it's well known that Shia makes around 15% of the Saudi population. Although sometimes there is some sort of discrimination against them by some Sunnis, but the government grant them full citzen rights, and you can find them everywhere, in army, ministries, education, embassies outside the country, etc.

​

 

[TashaN]

Thank you for your take, Shia. I am confused however; is the concept of Taqiyya unique to Shia Islam or do other sects employ this concept? I ask this b/c the Wikipedia article seems to imply Taqiyya is a soley Shia concept.

Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, only Shia employ this concept, not because they fear for their life, but because it's an essential part of their belief system. They mostly use it when dealing with Sunnis. I have seen it on TV in a debate between Sunni and Shia scholars. The Shia scholars would conceal the truth about some aspects of their beliefs about Sunnis. Note that most of Shia believe that Sunnis are not Muslims and that they would enter hell. Heck, i even read in a fatwa of one of their scholars that Jews and Christians are way better than Muslim Sunnis.

Well, anyhow, please read below:

Sunni view

Although Taqiyya is generally thought of as a Shi'a term according to principles defined by Shafi'i theologian al-Ghazali, lying, including protection of oneself or others, is permissible under certain circumstances: The Å Ä�fiˤī madhab (Arabic: شاÙ�عي) is one of the four schools of fiqh, or religious law, within Sunni Islam. ... Abu HÄ�med Mohammad ibn Mohammad al-GhazzÄ�lÄ« (1058-1111) (Persian: ), known as Algazel to the western medieval world, born and died in Tus, in the Khorasan province of Persia (modern day Iran). ...
“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…” [5] On the other hand, most Sunnis generally assert that the Shi'a doctrine of taqiyya isn't in accordance with its acceptable use (to save one's life). They assert that Shi'as have been using taqiyya as a tool of deception, not to save their own lives, but to cause strife for the Sunni Calipha (which was resented by Shi'as) and to legitimize their own minority faith in the eyes of a majority by whom it is constantly surrounded.[6] They point to the prominent Shi'a work Al Kafi (v9 p116) as evidence to what they call the Shia misuses of taqiyya. It reads, "Mix with them [non-Shi'a] externally but oppose them internally." They say that although taqiyya to save one's life can be considered legitimate at times, the way Shi'as have applied taqiyya by misrepresenting historical occurrences and sayings is forbidden.[7] Allegations such as these are found in many Sunni writings, classical and contemporary. For example, in Minhaj as-Sunnah, Shaykh Ibn Tayymiah of the Hanbali school of Sunni jurispudence said to narrate knowledge from everyone but the Shi'a "because they invent ahaadeeth and adopt them as part of their religion."

StateMaster - Encyclopedia: Taqiyya

Imagine someone who believe that he can lie at your face whenever he want and think of it as something holy and religious, just to prove a point or to attract you to him/her falsely!

 

[Peace]

I've run across the term a few times now, spelling it as both "taqqiya" and "taqiyya." May we discuss exactly what this means?

Only Shia sect who use this term and who apply taqiyya in their daily life. There is no taqiyya in Islam, the mainstream Islam. Lying in Islam is Haraam, forbidden.

 

[Badran]

I wanted to post this here instead of the Islam DIR because, in addition to Muslims, I'd like to hear from non-Muslims educated on the subject as well.

I've run across the term a few times now, spelling it as both "taqqiya" and "taqiyya." May we discuss exactly what this means?

Thanks.

PS. No fighting! :tsk: I have a ruler here, and I know how to use it. *thwack!s Revoltingest to demonstrate.*

Hi Anne, Have you seen Traitor?

Taqiyya means to conceal one faith's (in this case, Islam) when under threat and/or under persecution, not whatever the heck you just said.

Thank you xKatz. What xKatz said here is the whole meaning. This is the same story as Jihad, you'll have people jumping in lying and saying that Jihad means that we come to america and kill all americans.

With that said, let me explain something. I've learned, since i was a child, that muslims are allowed to hide their faith, in case they are danger of being killed for it, just like the beginning days of Islam, when Quraysh were persecuting muslims and torturing them and killing them.

However, the very term "taqiya" i have never heard except recently. I don't know where this term comes from.

 

[Badran]

I disagree. Pro-Muslim sites will never tell the full truth about Islam, since their goal is fundamentally, to promote the religion. Many sites do not tell the full truth. I'm sure if you went to the former Klansman David Duke's website (assuming the moron is even capable of using the internet) I doubt you'd find information on his involvement in the KKK. Instead he'd try to look moderate. On the Vatican Website there's no information on the Reichskonkordat or the Catholic involvement in the Holocaust (Hitler was a devout Catholic). Nor will you find information on Tiananmen Square or the murder of 1.2 million Tibetans on the Chinese Government's website.

Those sites are unreliable because they were set up by advocates of certain organizations to promote a particular viewpoint. And just as I wouldn't trust a pro-Catholic website or a pro-Chinese website to tell me the full, unbiased story on Catholicism or China, it doesn't make much sense to reference a pro-Islamic website on something like taquiya, which normally is kept a secret until you convert. Thus, the Muslims would have every reason to lie about taquiyya, since it's within their doctrine to do so, while non-Muslims really have no reason to lie.

Then, assuming you're right, you should go to neutral websites, not Anti-Islamic websites.