Still we don’t know

[King Phenomenon]

It’s so sad that the majority of people still don’t know the truth about the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis. The only thing I see is a small group of people claiming that Israel wants to eliminate Palestine and another small group saying that Palestine wants to eliminate Israel. Unfortunately, my guess is that people will still be debating this in 500 years. Pathetic really. I guess when you think about it they’re probably both a little bit to blame. That’s the only thing that makes any sense really.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is it?

It seems to me that while the subject matter is heavily loaded by expectations and attempts at distortion, there is no real shortage of evidence.

It is quite the trial, but it can be done, and arguably was.

 

[King Phenomenon]

So they say

 

[King Phenomenon]

From early on, the leadership of the Zionist movement had the idea of "transferring" (a euphemism for ethnic cleansing) the Arab Palestinian population out of the land for the purpose of establishing a Jewish demographic majority. The idea of transfer, Benny Morris describes, was "inevitable and inbuilt into Zionism".[45] The Arab population felt this threat as early as the 1880s with the arrival of the first aliyah.[26]

Amin al-Husseini, the architect of the Palestinian Arab national movement, immediately marked Jewish national movement and Jewish immigration to Palestine as the sole enemy to his cause,[50] initiating large-scale riots against the Jews as early as 1920 in Jerusalem and in 1921 in Jaffa.

Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Looks like they hated each other from the start unfortunately

 

[King Phenomenon]

The modern political Zionist movement, with the goal of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine, grew out of the last two decades of the 19th century, largely in response to antisemitism in Europe. While Jewish colonization began during this period, it was not until the arrival of more ideologically Zionist immigrants in the decade preceding the First World War that the landscape of Ottoman Palestine would start to significantly change.[44] Land purchases, the eviction of tenant Arab peasants and armed confrontation with Jewish para-military units would all contribute to the Palestinian population's growing fear of territorial displacement and dispossession.

Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So it appears that the Palestinians were fearful the moment the first jewish immigrants came to Palestine. That’s not a very good way to build a friendship. They were rightfully fearful, but no wonder why it all went to hell.

 

[The Hammer]

So what? Not my country not my problem.

 

[King Phenomenon]

So doing a little research on the backstory, so I guess Jewish people began coming to Palestine after the war and the Palestinians didn’t like it. What made the matter worse was the Jewish people evicted the poor Palestinian peasants from their property. Then Palestinian leaders started to urge mass riots against the Jewish people. Then it was just war after war until today’s mess.

 

[King Phenomenon]

From 1880-1920 there was resentment building in the Palestinians, because of all the Jewish people coming there. So it seems to me that the cause of this whole conflict stems from when the Jewish people started evicting poor Palestinians around 1920. If anybody has any more insight or more details about this particular time. And about what specifically went down I’d be glad to hear it.

My guess is that the Jewish people would say that anybody who is poor would’ve been evicted. They would’ve said why should there be freeloaders when everybody else has to work? Is this what went down? Was this their reason? Was it justified?

Maybe this is the time where all the divisions among people around the world today stem from? Those who support Israel think that the evictions were justifiable and those that support Palestine think that they weren’t justifiable. am I wrong? Like people that support Israel look back to those beginning days and see the poor peasants as freeloaders. Is this how sides are chosen? Within the small community setting and the politics of it?

Like you can’t eat our food if you don’t work for it mentality? If you have nothing good for society then get off our property type deal? Were judgments being made? Judgments about one’s character?

I would’ve liked to been a little fly on he wall back then.

 

[LuisDantas]

So what? Not my country not my problem.

Understandable feeling to a degree, but it is never a good thing to have bloody conflicts happening. We do not live in an entirely apart world.

So doing a little research on the backstory, so I guess Jewish people began coming to Palestine after the war and the Palestinians didn’t like it. What made the matter worse was the Jewish people evicted the poor Palestinian peasants from their property. Then Palestinian leaders started to urge mass riots against the Jewish people. Then it was just war after war until today’s mess.

The Sionist movement goes back a long way before WW2, and much of it involved buying the land from others, particularly after the end of the British Mandate.

Timeline of Zionism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We should probably take into account the intentionally contradictory, three-fronts policy of the United Kingdom in the time between WW1 and WW2 in the Middle East.

There were promises of an independent Arab State around what is currently Syria

T. E. Lawrence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There was the Balfour Declaration of 1917

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And there was the Sykes-Picot Agreement

Sykes–Picot Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Me, I don't really understand how independence can be promised, let alone promised by people from outside the land. But apparently it has been more than once, to little avail, and apparently a version of that same promise is being made now by the proposals of the so-called Two-State Solution.

As of 1923 there were British and French Mandates in the Middle East, and their history was never very calm, at least in the part of the British Mandate that is now Israel.

I do not trust the prevailing versions coming from Palestinian sources these days. The whole matter is no doubt quite complex and difficult, but I can't help but notice how willing the neighbors are to engage in violence against Israel and how consistently they refuse two-countries plans.

It does not help that apparently there is no clear leadership from the Palestinian side (and the Israeli side isn't looking too good on that front either). I sincerely don't know who would even be a candidate for credible spokesperson for the Palestinian side in any effort at calming the conflicts. After decades of conflict, I have to wonder how adjusted for peace the Palestinians will even be if it can be assured somehow.

 

[The Hammer]

Understandable feeling to a degree, but it is never a good thing to have bloody conflicts happening. We do not live in an entirely apart world.

While I understand that. It's more of the sentiment that we need to be less interventionist and more focused on our own deficiencies societally.

 

[LuisDantas]

While I understand that. It's more of the sentiment that we need to be less interventionist and more focused on our own deficiencies societally.

A legitimate position. I still don't know for a fact that the choice truly exists.

 

[idea]

Christians started the zionist movement.

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Arthur Balfour, Presbyterian - along with other Christians anxious for second coming, believe in a restoration & redemption of Israel - the Christian 2nd coming story relies on Jews living in Israel, so Christians pushed Jews back to Israel.

 

[LuisDantas]

Christians started the zionist movement.

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Arthur Balfour, Presbyterian - along with other Christians anxious for second coming, believe in a restoration & redemption of Israel - the Christian 2nd coming story relies on Jews living in Israel, so Christians pushed Jews back to Israel.

That may be a valid interpretation (although I fully expect that alternate views exist and may or may not be more convincing), but is that relevant now?

I would think not. It is not like some form of Christian movement might hypothetically change things significantly there at this time. The current Israelis are not likely to be talked into finding Israel unnecessary, now are they? Even if they were, I somehow don't imagine that literal millions of people would just decide to go live elsewhere because foreigners decided that they ought to.

 

[idea]

That may be a valid interpretation (although I fully expect that alternate views exist and may or may not be more convincing), but is that relevant now?

I would think not. It is not like some form of Christian movement might hypothetically change things significantly there at this time. The current Israelis are not likely to be talked into finding Israel unnecessary, now are they? Even if they were, I somehow don't imagine that literal millions of people would just decide to go live elsewhere because foreigners decided that they ought to.

Many current Christians still support Jewish Zionism. It is one of the reasons Americans have been involved in it.

Christian Zionism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Unfettered]

It’s so sad that the majority of people still don’t know the truth about the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis. The only thing I see is a small group of people claiming that Israel wants to eliminate Palestine and another small group saying that Palestine wants to eliminate Israel. Unfortunately, my guess is that people will still be debating this in 500 years. Pathetic really. I guess when you think about it they’re probably both a little bit to blame. That’s the only thing that makes any sense really.

The Israel/Palestinian conflict is no different that any other conflict of nations/peoples. All conflicts grow from the seed of pride (in one form or another), and die only to humility. Conflicts that end merely because one party runs out of resources are not really ended, just dormant; without humility to snuff them out entirely, they'll continue when, once again, a critical mass of resources to continue the conflict is reached.