Salat

[Shariq]

SALAT...Namaz...Prayer...

No where does Quran mention, how to offer salat or how many times a day to offer it.

How to offer Salat and how many times to offer Salat, are two entirely different issues. Quran does tell us about few postures while offering Salat, e.g. Standing, sitting, bowing, prostrating and reciting Quran. I don't know how and at what time of Islamic history some extra-Quranic odes like Durood & Tashahud (Attahiyat) had crept into the Salat.

At quite a few number of times Allah has clearly said in Quran to follow Abraham and to follow the followers of Abraham. Quran also tells us that Allah has taught Salat to Abraham. Our last Prophet may have had the inspiration as to what should have been taught to Abraham with regards to Salat. As per Quran Prophet Muhammad has to be a follower of Abraham and so are we. In Allah's view Salat has been one of the ways to reach Allah i.e. attain salvation and this has been mentioned in Quran.

33:21 = Ye have indeed in the Messenger of God a beautiful pattern for any one whose hope is in God and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of God.

Simply we have to follow the way Rasoollallh had offered Salat then after Prophet’s demise his wives & companions followed the same pattern, then their companions & followers then their followers and so on.....till this chain of "followers" reached us.

 

[Gharib]

The Qur'an mentions three times of prayer, Dawn, Midday and Evening. However it does not restrict it to these three times, meaning it hasn't said there are only three and no more. It also mentions some aspects of the salah, such as prostration/sujood etc.

The hadith in relation to everything that has to do with Islam, the Qur'an and all forms of worship are a divine revelation through Jibril/Gabriel. To deny the hadith means to deny the Qur'an, and to deny the Qur'an means to be a non-Muslim.

 

[Shariq]

The Qur'an mentions three times of prayer, Dawn, Midday and Evening. However it does not restrict it to these three times, meaning it hasn't said there are only three and no more. It also mentions some aspects of the salah, such as prostration/sujood etc.

The hadith in relation to everything that has to do with Islam, the Qur'an and all forms of worship are a divine revelation through Jibril/Gabriel. To deny the hadith means to deny the Qur'an, and to deny the Qur'an means to be a non-Muslim.

Absolutely incorrect. If....and I repeat ....if, Salat (Namaz or Prayers) is so important an obligation for Muslims so as to have been recognized as "Gateway" to Jannah, then what could have been the reason Allah not mentioning it in any one of those 6000plus verses in Quran. Such an important thing (the Salat) should have been mentioned a verse in totality, that is to say in detail.
By the way, Hadeeth culture has been a greatest "Fitnah" i.e. a mischief played on otherwise liberal, modern, progressive, permissive and simple.........easy to follow religion. Today, the Muslims have made Quran subservient to this culture evolved by Bukhari - Muslim & Co. Pvt. Ltd. 250 years after the demise of the Prophet.

 

[Augustus]

To deny the hadith means to deny the Qur'an, and to deny the Qur'an means to be a non-Muslim.

What if you don't trust the words of man, and prefer to put faith in the word of God?

Some Sahih hadiths are almost certainly fabricated, and many others are highly dubious, yet some people believe the hadith can abrogate the eternal and uncreated word of God?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Shariq]

What if you don't trust the words of man, and prefer to put faith in the word of God?

Some Sahih hadiths are almost certainly fabricated, and many others are highly dubious, yet some people believe the hadith can abrogate the eternal and uncreated word of God?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

People in general do not follow Quran because such has been told to them by birth by the corrupt clergy. The Quran verses have been highly distorted and misinterpreted to make fool of the gullible God fearing people.
Apart from what is written there in our scriptures one should also have his own opinion. My belief is simple and is follows:
Most of the people belong to their Religion not by choice but certainly by chance. Any one can't say that "My religion is true and yours is false". The world will be a much better place to live in if we all believe that all the Religions of the world are at par with each other, all are true.

 

[Gharib]

What if you don't trust the words of man, and prefer to put faith in the word of God?

Some Sahih hadiths are almost certainly fabricated, and many others are highly dubious, yet some people believe the hadith can abrogate the eternal and uncreated word of God?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

The hadith are the words of God except in a different form of revelation. I think I should differentiate between things said by the companions regarding a matter and things said by the Prophet himself regarding the teachings of the Qur'an.

Are there Sahih Hadith which contradict the Qur'an and other Hadith? Ofcourse there are. A hadith's clasification has nothing to do with having to do what it says or not. To act upon the text of the hadith, sahih or otherwise, without being a scholar of Fiqh is pure ignorance. However, Sahih hadith are not fabricated. There is a very strict process that each and every hadith goes through in order to get it's classification. The two Sahih, Bukhari and Muslim, are unanimously agreed upon by the majority of the Ummah and the Scholars that they do not contain weak hadith let alone fabricated ones.

The science of hadith only verifies that so and so said such and such, but whether we should act upon it and whether it contradicts the Qur'an is none of it's concern. It is the science of Fiqh that tells us whether a hadith should be acted upon or not. So just because a hadith has been classed as Sahih this in no way means we should act upon what it says unless the scholars of Fiqh tell us to because it may contradict the Qur'an. The Qur'an was revealed in a period of 23 years, it permitted things at one stage which latter had them abrogated and made forbidden. So unless you are a scholar of Fiqh and know Islamic history you cannot possibly act according to a hadith simply because it is Sahih.

If you wish to discuss some hadith you may have come across I'd be happy to try and explain them, but I am not a scholar and may have difficulty but I can try.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I personally believe that since the Quran clearly says to follow the Prophet, Muslims took how to perform the prayer from Muhammad (pbuh) directly as he is believed to be the most understanding person of the Quran, the word of God, as Muslims believe it to be. As for me, I'm a native of Hijaz, the home of Muhammad, so I believe my people inherited his actual practices directly, not just took them from Hadeeth.

That's what I think the case is.

 

[Augustus]

As for me, I'm a native of Hijaz, the home of Muhammad, so I believe my people inherited his actual practices directly, not just took them from Hadeeth.

Wasn't that an argument in early Islam after the death of the prophet?

You had some people who thought the Quran should be understood through human logic and reason, others through the sayings of the prophet and others thought that whatever people did in Medina was correct, as they had learned directly from the prophet. Is this correct?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Wasn't that an argument in early Islam after the death of the prophet?

It could be, I'm not really sure. I personally believe that those lived around Muhammad are the ones who are most expected to have learned from him.

You had some people who thought the Quran should be understood through human logic and reason, others through the sayings of the prophet and others thought that whatever people did in Medina was correct, as they had learned directly from the prophet. Is this correct?

Yes it is, but not exclusively. Those are different possible views among some others.

Basically, Islam is about believing in and following one God. Everything else that's not clearly told in the Quran is open to different views as long as those views make sense, so I don't really bother much with some of the details that confuse me.

 

[LukeS]

With regards to salah I am hanafi, but largely because I live next to a hanafi mosque, but also I like to emulate the hanafi elders as I am liking their attitude. So my choice comes that way, and I rely on the ulema to organise the congregation correctly. I am no one to delve into salah hadith, and make up my own mind on that one. Personally I find salah very intelligent, its organisational function, and outer and inner aesthetic.

 

[dsaly1969]

I know I am resurrecting a very old thread. Here is my question. I believe that the Qur'an is the best of all Hadiths, BUT that does not mean that I should reject ALL Hadiths. I would only reject those that contradict what is in the Qur'an. So as to Salat, the Salat as per the Hadiths fulfills all of the requirements that are mentioned in the Qur'an. If anything, the major Hadiths regarding Salat give more details which are helpful to maintain UNITY among the believers. I find the same for the other Five Pillars of Islam and the Six Pillars of Iman. In my opinion, while I am sure there may have been abuses with inappropriate and false Hadiths, the solution is to use the Qur'anic standard of evaluation of Hadiths so that we do not dismantle the framework of Islam. For example, I came to understand and appreciate the beauty of Islam by studying it through the lens of the Hadith of Jibreel and then reading a translation of the Qur'an. (And thank goodness for the podcasts on Muslim Central and SeekersHub.

La ilaha illa Allah wa Muhammad rasul Allah.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know I am resurrecting a very old thread.

So why do it? Start your own thread. You'll have much more of a chance to get an answer.