Michelle Obama knocked one out of the stadium and into orbit last night

[sun rise]

Her speech was spot on calling upon the best of America, showcasing American values, promoting fundamental virtues of generosity, tolerance, compassion, understanding and kindness. She put into words how I feel about America:

"Don't ever let anybody tell you our country isn't great, that somehow we need to make it great again. This country is the greatest country on Earth!"

Even sane Republicans acknowledged what she said. Marco Rubio's faith outreach director: "I'm jealous of the party that still offers hope and inspiration, and not merely anger and darkness."

This and more including a video of the speech itself is here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gainst-donald-trump/5796b38e4acce20505161e31/

 

[Debater Slayer]

Don't ever let anybody tell you our country isn't great, that somehow we need to make it great again. This country is the greatest country on Earth!

I'm wondering what she means by "greatest country on Earth." I have a feeling that asking Iraqi, Afghani, and Pakistani people whose families or friends were killed as a result of the United States' warmongering would yield a different opinion.

Nationalist zeal can be scary with how much it can distort reality and make people glorify their countries despite atrocities and crimes committed by their countries. It happens in the Middle East, Europe, and, obviously, in the U.S.—and I'm sure everywhere else too.

 

[Quetzal]

I'm wondering what she means by "greatest country on Earth." I have a feeling that asking Iraqi, Afghani, and Pakistani people whose families or friends were killed as a result of the United States' warmongering would yield a different opinion.

I am really happy you are here to offer those perspectives we might not have otherwise. I got caught up in the speech, too. But you have an excellent point. What message does that send to the inhabitants of other nations that are at the pointy end of our sword? Nationalism has the potential to be dangerous and claiming to be the greatest country on Earth is quite a statement to make.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Don't ever let anybody tell you our country isn't great, that somehow we need to make it great again. This country is the greatest country on Earth!"

We had some great ideas a bit over 200 years ago, but today we have fallen so far behind in things that matter but have kept up in the negative areas such as military-economic repression of foreign countries. When your country spends billions and achieves the worlds highest incarceration rate, mostly over a plant, when your college students sink into crippling debt, when social mobility is stagnant and declining, when you have a flood of guns and a high murder rate, and when we actually have to struggle to keep religious mythos out of the science room and fight for civil rights because people want to deny them based on what an ancient book says, it's hard to justify that your country is great. If I can make it to Canada, I'll have more protections and rights than I do now, more freedoms, and they didn't start the war that help create and clear the way for ISIS.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I am really happy you are here to offer those perspectives we might not have otherwise. I got caught up in the speech, too. But you have an excellent point. What message does that send to the inhabitants of other nations that are at the pointy end of our sword? Nationalism has the potential to be dangerous and claiming to be the greatest country on Earth is quite a statement to make.

Yeah, and I get the same feeling when I hear anyone whose country has committed blatant human rights abuses in the last 20-10 years at least say similar things (including people of my own country). Unless you set the standard for "greatest country on Earth" so low that it makes leeway for committing severe human rights abuses or—as in the case of the U.S.—even war crimes, then the phrase itself either becomes meaningless or dangerously watered down.

 

[suncowiam]

Well, it seems to me that this one, especially the highlighted part, belongs to the upper echelons of delusion.

Now, excuse me while I go tell Iraqi, Afghani, and Pakistani victims of U.S. warmongering and drone strikes that "America is the greatest country on Earth." Should be able to convince them. I mean... ehm.

If you actually lived in the US and enjoy the freedoms that we as Americans can express then I think you might think differently.

Being Vietnamese, I was very anti-Vietnam war during my early ages but as time became history and because of hindsight, I then saw how democratic and capitalistic countries excelled away from traditional communistic societies. I now wish that US won the Vietnam war because I'm convinced that Vietnam could have been another South Korea. If you knew the level of poverty my family and other Vietnamese families endured in Vietnam even before the war and now compare that to the level of success, security, comfort, equality and freedom for families that immigrated, there frankly, is no comparison. I truly wish the same can be said for those that stayed behind in Vietnam, but I could not for a very long time. Only until recently, when Vietnam changed its social and economic policies did the living conditions improved. Those changes are reflective of the same policies of western nations.

I respect your opinions but mine are not just from ideals and hypotheticals. They are very much based on real life.

 

[Quetzal]

If you actually lived in the US and enjoy the freedoms that we as Americans can express then I think you might think differently.

You understand the US is not the only country with freedom, right?

 

[suncowiam]

You understand the US is not the only country with freedom, right?

That's rhetorical. What are you implying so I understand your complete thought?

 

[Debater Slayer]

If you actually lived in the US and enjoy the freedoms that we as Americans can express then I think you might think differently.

If I focused only on those freedoms and didn't consider how victims of the United States' military adventurism and support for draconian regimes might feel, maybe. I know many people who enjoy the freedoms of the U.S. and appreciate them but don't state that the U.S. is the "greatest country on Earth," though.

Being Vietnamese, I was very anti-Vietnam war during my early ages but as time became history and because of hindsight, I then saw how democratic and capitalistic countries excelled away from traditional communistic societies. I now wish that US won the Vietnam war because I'm convinced that Vietnam could have been another South Korea. If you knew the level of poverty my family and other Vietnamese families endured in Vietnam even before the war and now compare that to the level of success, security, comfort, equality and freedom for families that immigrated, there frankly, is no comparison. I truly wish the same can be said for those that stayed behind in Vietnam, but I could not for a very long time. Only until recently, when Vietnam changed its social and economic policies did the living conditions improved. Those changes are reflective of the same policies of western nations.

I respect your opinions but mine are not just from ideals and hypotheticals. They are very much based on real life.

I respect your opinions too, but mine aren't based on ideals or hypotheticals either. I'm talking about two actual wars that the U.S. engaged in for no good reason and killed hundreds of thousands of people as a result. That has made neither Afghanistan nor Iraq better... nor anywhere else, really.

I'm glad you and other immigrant Vietnamese families have found a new home, though.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm wondering what she means by "greatest country on Earth." I have a feeling that asking Iraqi, Afghani, and Pakistani people whose families or friends were killed as a result of the United States' warmongering would yield a different opinion.

Nationalist zeal can be scary with how much it can distort reality and make people glorify their countries despite atrocities and crimes committed by their countries. It happens in the Middle East, Europe, and, obviously, in the U.S.—and I'm sure everywhere else too.

To put Obama's remarks in context, I think what she said was all but politically necessary. It was a direct and blunt challenge to Donald Trump. Yes, I know the words can be easily taken in a way that is not only offensive to many people the US has wronged, but also in a way that renders the words themselves BS. All I'm saying is I don't think, politically speaking, Obama had much choice but to utter them or something along the lines as them.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You understand the US is not the only country with freedom, right?

*domestic freedom.

(Gitmo and Abu Ghraib say hi. )

 

[Debater Slayer]

To put Obama's remarks in context, I think what she said was all but politically necessary. It was a direct and blunt challenge to Donald Trump. Moreover, for reasons of domestic politics, Yes, I know the words can be easily taken in a way that is not only offensive to many people the US has wronged, but also in a way that renders the words themselves BS. All I'm saying is I don't think, politically speaking, Obama had much choice but to utter them or something along the lines as them.

That makes sense, I think. Politics involves a lot of lying and sugarcoating, and I wouldn't blame Michelle Obama for saying the words per se if and only if she absolutely had to say them.

 

[Sunstone]

That makes sense, I think. Politics involves a lot of lying and sugarcoating, and I wouldn't blame Michelle Obama for saying the words per se if and only if she absolutely had to say them.

Actually, I have a mild to moderate disdain for the American electorate for including among its ranks so many damn fools who basically demand to hear such BS.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Actually, I have a mild to moderate disdain for the American electorate for including among its ranks so many damn fools who basically demand to hear such BS.

Come on, man... if you think this is bad, remember that the U.S. elected Bush a second time just a bit over a decade ago. Things have gotten better, obviously.

(The U.S. is far from alone in bad voting decisions, though.)

 

[Sunstone]

Her speech was spot on calling upon the best of America, showcasing American values, promoting fundamental virtues of generosity, tolerance, compassion, understanding and kindness. She put into words how I feel about America:

"Don't ever let anybody tell you our country isn't great, that somehow we need to make it great again. This country is the greatest country on Earth!"

Even sane Republicans acknowledged what she said. Marco Rubio's faith outreach director: "I'm jealous of the party that still offers hope and inspiration, and not merely anger and darkness."

This and more including a video of the speech itself is here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gainst-donald-trump/5796b38e4acce20505161e31/

The essential issue here, in my opinion, is not the significance of the phrase, "This country is the greatest country on Earth". It's significance is a mere sideshow to another, altogether larger issue. The issue of whether the country will stick to the values of generosity, tolerance, compassion, understanding, and kindness, or will on the other hand, embrace the values of anger, xenophobia, scapegoating, divisiveness, and fear.

 

[Quetzal]

That's rhetorical. What are you implying so I understand your complete thought?

My complete thought is that putting the US at the top of any sort of tier list because we have "freedom" is a really inefficient way to approach this really stupid topic of "who is the bestest". To draw polarizing lines and base those lines on something like freedom is counter productive.

 

[suncowiam]

If I focused only on those freedoms and didn't consider how victims of the United States' military adventurism and support for draconian regimes might feel, maybe. I know many people who enjoy the freedoms of the U.S. and appreciate them but don't state that the U.S. is the "greatest country on Earth," though.



I respect your opinions too, but mine aren't based on ideals or hypotheticals either. I'm talking about two actual wars that the U.S. engaged in for no good reason and killed hundreds of thousands of people as a result. That has made neither Afghanistan nor Iraq better... nor anywhere else, really.

I'm glad you and other immigrant Vietnamese families have found a new home, though.

Yeah, US does fight proxy wars. There's intent and then there's reality. I agree that we should be very careful on who we arm because initial policies do change and they do change for the worse. I don't deny this as a major fault of US. I would say if we don't fight the fight ourselves then just leave it. But as a world leader for democracy, freedom, and equality, I would be hypocritical concerning my own experiences to suggest that US should no longer fight for other populations of the world.

Now, I'm not saying that all of US are as ideal as I put it. There will always be corruption but that shouldn't stop us from fixing the corruption and continue to push our ideals with other nations.

Concerning the killing of innocents. Same thing happened in Vietnam, in Korea... Whenever the enemy is under powered, it needs to fight via guerrilla warfare. They need to hide among civilians. I'm not justifying this but point the finger at all involved instead of just one side...

 

[suncowiam]

My complete thought is that putting the US at the top of any sort of tier list because we have "freedom" is a really inefficient way to approach this really stupid topic of "who is the bestest". To draw polarizing lines and base those lines on something like freedom is counter productive.

We're at the top because of many other things.

Economy, power, influence, technology, medicine... Is that sufficient?

Is that your only argument concerning why were at the top?

What country would you pick being higher than us? You might think I'm being overly proud and egotistical, but I'm actually being logical in my assertion.

 

[Sunstone]

Wow! This thread is the new king of off topic posts!

 

[Quetzal]

We're at the top because of many other things.

Economy, power, influence, technology, medicine... Is that sufficient?

Is that your only argument concerning why were at the top?

What country would you pick being higher than us? You might think I'm being overly proud and egotistical, but I'm actually being logical in my assertion.

A logical assertion without any data.

We currently rank:
43rd in life expectancy.
62ed in average age.
3rd in GDP (not bad, but not best so your argument on economy is foiled).
54th in unemployment.
63rd in education expenditures.
14th in overall education.
93rd in death rate.

I mean... you are drawing your conclusions on what... again?