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Is the lack of faith of Atheists due to theists' failure to support their claims?

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism? Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism? Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.

My basic answer to your question would be "most certainly".

I would take it further, however, in arguing that it is not only the arguments of theists that are often flawed but the way in which those religious beliefs are practised in lives of their followers.

The Magisterium of the Catholic Church (as evidenced by the Vatican II Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes (1965) and the encyclical Ecclesiam Suam (1964) of Blessed Pope Paul VI) endorses the fundamental contention proposed in your above post, namely that believers are often to blame for the unbelief of atheists and agnostics.

See:

"...The word atheism is applied to phenomena which are quite distinct from one another. For while God is expressly denied by some, others believe that man can assert absolutely nothing about Him. Still others use such a method to scrutinize the question of God as to make it seem devoid of meaning. Many, unduly transgressing the limits of the positive sciences, contend that everything can be explained by this kind of scientific reasoning alone, or by contrast, they altogether disallow that there is any absolute truth. Some laud man so extravagantly that their faith in God lapses into a kind of anemia, though they seem more inclined to affirm man than to deny God. Again some form for themselves such a fallacious idea of God that when they repudiate this figment they are by no means rejecting the God of the Gospel. Some never get to the point of raising questions about God, since they seem to experience no religious stirrings nor do they see why they should trouble themselves about religion. Moreover, atheism results not rarely from a violent protest against the evil in this world, or from the absolute character with which certain human values are unduly invested, and which thereby already accords them the stature of God...Believers themselves frequently bear some responsibility for this situation. For, taken as a whole, atheism is not a spontaneous development but stems from a variety of causes, including a critical reaction against religious beliefs, and in some places against the Christian religion in particular. Hence believers can have more than a little to do with the birth of atheism. To the extent that they neglect their own training in the faith, or teach erroneous doctrine, or are deficient in their religious, moral or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than reveal the authentic face of God and religion...She [the Church] strives to detect in the atheistic mind the hidden causes for the denial of God; conscious of how weighty are the questions which atheism raises, and motivated by love for all men, she believes these questions ought to be examined seriously and more profoundly...She courteously invites atheists to examine the Gospel of Christ with an open mind..."

- Gaudium et Spes (PASTORAL CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH IN THE MODERN WORLD), 1965


"...Though We speak firmly and clearly in defense of religion, and of those human, spiritual values which it proclaims and cherishes, Our pastoral solicitude nevertheless prompts Us to probe into the mind of the modern atheist, in an effort to understand the reasons for his mental turmoil and his denial of God. They are obviously many and complex, and we must come to a prudent decision about them, and answer them effectively. They sometimes spring from the demand for a more profound and purer presentation of religious truth, and an objection to forms of language and worship which somehow fall short of the ideal. These things we must remedy. We must do all we can to purify them and make them express more adequately the sacred reality of which they are the signs. We see these men serving a demanding and often a noble cause, fired with enthusiasm and idealism, dreaming of justice and progress and striving for a social order which they conceive of as the ultimate of perfection, and all but divine. This, for them, is the Absolute and the Necessary. It proves that nothing can tear from their hearts their yearning for God, the first and final cause of all things. It is the task of our teaching Office to reveal to them, with patience and wisdom, that all these things are immanent in human nature and transcend it. Again we see these men taking pains to work out scientific explanation of the universe by human reasoning, and they are often quite ingenuously enthusiastic about this. It is an enquiry which is all the less reprehensible in that it follows rules of logic very similar to those which are taught in the best schools of philosophy. Such an enquiry, far from providing them, as they suppose, with irrefutable arguments in defense of their atheism, must of its very nature bring them back finally to the metaphysic al and logical assertion of the existence of the supreme God...They are sometimes men of great breadth of mind, impatient with the mediocrity and self-seeking which infects so much of modern society. They are quick to make use of sentiments and expressions found in our Gospel, referring to the brotherhood of man, mutual aid, and human compassion. Shall we not one day be able to lead them back to the Christian sources of these moral values?... We do not therefore give up hope of the eventual possibility of a dialogue between these men and the Church..."

- ECCLESIAM SUAM, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI , AUGUST 6, 1964


This is also reiterated in the Catechism:


2125..."Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion."
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism? Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.

Atheists are not alone. I am sure my Hindu friend fails to see a clear cut case for Jesus and, symmetrically, my Christian friend fails to see a clear cut case for Ganesh.

So, it is not only a thing between theists and atheists, but between all possible combinations of incompatible beliefs.

And this is why I think that cosmological arguments, and the rest, are fun but are useless. They do not tell me anything about the God I should worship, and if there were a clear cut argument for any of those special gods (e.g. Empty tombs and stuff) we would not need any cosmological/something from nothing argument to start with.

Ciao

- viole
 
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Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism? Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.
In part it is possible but for me personally it isn't the failure of theists but of the concept itself. There has been no failure on their part to try and convince me. It just doesn't seem to be a likely or evident truth of the world.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism? Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.
I think that it's more basic than that. My first remembrance of atheism was stark disbelief at the description--in answer to the question of what God is--of a man floating on clouds in the sky. Our notions of the world, of what's acceptably so and what's not, are to blame.
 

jojom

Active Member
It is definitely a failure on the part of the theist, at least those who try to convince the unbeliever. The unbeliever has certain standards of acceptance, which the theist fails to meet. And as viole points out, this isn't only the case with atheists, but everyone who remains unconvinced of the truth of a particular position.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
It is definitely a failure on the part of the theist, at least those who try to convince the unbeliever. The unbeliever has certain standards of acceptance, which the theist fails to meet. And as viole points out, this isn't only the case with atheists, but everyone who remains unconvinced of the truth of a particular position.

Do you presume, then, that we each are capable of being convinced of any position (i.e. that we all think similarly enough)?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

I don't think so, personally. Far as I can tell believe in deities just isn't something that can or should be made to work for everyone.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism?

Prudence? If there were some sort of duty or responsibility involved, perhaps. If belief or disbelief were important.

But they are not, IMO. They are just personal inclinations, esthetical tendencies with no major repercussions except those that come from expecting others to share them.


Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.

No. It is damaging to the reputation and effectiveness of theism, though.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
My basic answer to your question would be "most certainly".

I would take it further, however, in arguing that it is not only the arguments of theists that are often flawed but the way in which those religious beliefs are practised in lives of their followers.

The Magisterium of the Catholic Church (as evidenced by the Vatican II Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes (1965) and the encyclical Ecclesiam Suam (1964) of Blessed Pope Paul VI) endorses the fundamental contention proposed in your above post, namely that believers are often to blame for the unbelief of atheists and agnostics.

See:

"...The word atheism is applied to phenomena which are quite distinct from one another. For while God is expressly denied by some, others believe that man can assert absolutely nothing about Him. Still others use such a method to scrutinize the question of God as to make it seem devoid of meaning. Many, unduly transgressing the limits of the positive sciences, contend that everything can be explained by this kind of scientific reasoning alone, or by contrast, they altogether disallow that there is any absolute truth. Some laud man so extravagantly that their faith in God lapses into a kind of anemia, though they seem more inclined to affirm man than to deny God. Again some form for themselves such a fallacious idea of God that when they repudiate this figment they are by no means rejecting the God of the Gospel. Some never get to the point of raising questions about God, since they seem to experience no religious stirrings nor do they see why they should trouble themselves about religion. Moreover, atheism results not rarely from a violent protest against the evil in this world, or from the absolute character with which certain human values are unduly invested, and which thereby already accords them the stature of God...Believers themselves frequently bear some responsibility for this situation. For, taken as a whole, atheism is not a spontaneous development but stems from a variety of causes, including a critical reaction against religious beliefs, and in some places against the Christian religion in particular. Hence believers can have more than a little to do with the birth of atheism. To the extent that they neglect their own training in the faith, or teach erroneous doctrine, or are deficient in their religious, moral or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than reveal the authentic face of God and religion...She [the Church] strives to detect in the atheistic mind the hidden causes for the denial of God; conscious of how weighty are the questions which atheism raises, and motivated by love for all men, she believes these questions ought to be examined seriously and more profoundly...She courteously invites atheists to examine the Gospel of Christ with an open mind..."

- Gaudium et Spes (PASTORAL CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH IN THE MODERN WORLD), 1965


"...Though We speak firmly and clearly in defense of religion, and of those human, spiritual values which it proclaims and cherishes, Our pastoral solicitude nevertheless prompts Us to probe into the mind of the modern atheist, in an effort to understand the reasons for his mental turmoil and his denial of God. They are obviously many and complex, and we must come to a prudent decision about them, and answer them effectively. They sometimes spring from the demand for a more profound and purer presentation of religious truth, and an objection to forms of language and worship which somehow fall short of the ideal. These things we must remedy. We must do all we can to purify them and make them express more adequately the sacred reality of which they are the signs. We see these men serving a demanding and often a noble cause, fired with enthusiasm and idealism, dreaming of justice and progress and striving for a social order which they conceive of as the ultimate of perfection, and all but divine. This, for them, is the Absolute and the Necessary. It proves that nothing can tear from their hearts their yearning for God, the first and final cause of all things. It is the task of our teaching Office to reveal to them, with patience and wisdom, that all these things are immanent in human nature and transcend it. Again we see these men taking pains to work out scientific explanation of the universe by human reasoning, and they are often quite ingenuously enthusiastic about this. It is an enquiry which is all the less reprehensible in that it follows rules of logic very similar to those which are taught in the best schools of philosophy. Such an enquiry, far from providing them, as they suppose, with irrefutable arguments in defense of their atheism, must of its very nature bring them back finally to the metaphysic al and logical assertion of the existence of the supreme God...They are sometimes men of great breadth of mind, impatient with the mediocrity and self-seeking which infects so much of modern society. They are quick to make use of sentiments and expressions found in our Gospel, referring to the brotherhood of man, mutual aid, and human compassion. Shall we not one day be able to lead them back to the Christian sources of these moral values?... We do not therefore give up hope of the eventual possibility of a dialogue between these men and the Church..."

- ECCLESIAM SUAM, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI , AUGUST 6, 1964


This is also reiterated in the Catechism:


2125..."Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion."
That is a surprisingly self-aware statement from an entity as massive as the CC. I mean that genuinely. I'm far more used to seeing arguments against atheism being from the position that atheists "love sin" or some other ridiculous accusation, and deny their God purely out of spite or hate rather than genuine lack of belief. This however is at least taking some responsibility and suggesting that both sides(Christian/religious in general and atheism) are merely doing what they think is most-right and both sides are equally to blame in certain issues. Far more effective than the "atheists are agents of satan" kind of **** you see from a lot of other(largely American) Christian organizations.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism? Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.
In my opinion, we really are born with an innate propensity to either believe in the existence of a High Power or to disbelieve. The same evidence is essentially available to all of us. Some see it as compelling and others see it as nonsense.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
In my opinion, we really are born with an innate propensity to either believe in the existence of a High Power or to disbelieve. The same evidence is essentially available to all of us. Some see it as compelling and others see it as nonsense.
But, sometimes evidence is only as good as the person presenting it.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.
Speaking for myself, I believe I provide valid reasons and supported arguments. I present these as best I can to atheists so I don't blame myself for the lack of belief of atheists. To go further, in the end I think the importance of the atheist/theist question is overrated. Whatever your metaphysical beliefs, I believe spiritual progress is made through improving the quality of our hearts and minds (not our metaphysical beliefs).
Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism?
Yes, but I believe in my case I do provide sufficient evidence/reasoning to support what I believe.

Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.
Well, these types of arguments are not very effective at telling us anything meaningful. The evidence/arguments I find strongest come from the collective human experience.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Speaking for myself, I believe I provide valid reasons and supported arguments. I present these as best I can to atheists so I don't blame myself for the lack of belief of atheists.

IMO, you should no more blame yourself for lack of belief in atheists than you should blame yourself for the eye colors of other people.


To go further, in the end I think the importance of the atheist/theist question is overrated. Whatever your metaphysical beliefs, I believe spiritual progress is made through improving the quality of our hearts and minds (not our metaphysical beliefs).

So true. I completely agree.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
My basic answer to your question would be "most certainly".

I would take it further, however, in arguing that it is not only the arguments of theists that are often flawed but the way in which those religious beliefs are practised in lives of their followers.

The Magisterium of the Catholic Church (as evidenced by the Vatican II Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes (1965) and the encyclical Ecclesiam Suam (1964) of Blessed Pope Paul VI) endorses the fundamental contention proposed in your above post, namely that believers are often to blame for the unbelief of atheists and agnostics.

See:

"...The word atheism is applied to phenomena which are quite distinct from one another. For while God is expressly denied by some, others believe that man can assert absolutely nothing about Him. Still others use such a method to scrutinize the question of God as to make it seem devoid of meaning. Many, unduly transgressing the limits of the positive sciences, contend that everything can be explained by this kind of scientific reasoning alone, or by contrast, they altogether disallow that there is any absolute truth. Some laud man so extravagantly that their faith in God lapses into a kind of anemia, though they seem more inclined to affirm man than to deny God. Again some form for themselves such a fallacious idea of God that when they repudiate this figment they are by no means rejecting the God of the Gospel. Some never get to the point of raising questions about God, since they seem to experience no religious stirrings nor do they see why they should trouble themselves about religion. Moreover, atheism results not rarely from a violent protest against the evil in this world, or from the absolute character with which certain human values are unduly invested, and which thereby already accords them the stature of God...Believers themselves frequently bear some responsibility for this situation. For, taken as a whole, atheism is not a spontaneous development but stems from a variety of causes, including a critical reaction against religious beliefs, and in some places against the Christian religion in particular. Hence believers can have more than a little to do with the birth of atheism. To the extent that they neglect their own training in the faith, or teach erroneous doctrine, or are deficient in their religious, moral or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than reveal the authentic face of God and religion...She [the Church] strives to detect in the atheistic mind the hidden causes for the denial of God; conscious of how weighty are the questions which atheism raises, and motivated by love for all men, she believes these questions ought to be examined seriously and more profoundly...She courteously invites atheists to examine the Gospel of Christ with an open mind..."

- Gaudium et Spes (PASTORAL CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH IN THE MODERN WORLD), 1965


"...Though We speak firmly and clearly in defense of religion, and of those human, spiritual values which it proclaims and cherishes, Our pastoral solicitude nevertheless prompts Us to probe into the mind of the modern atheist, in an effort to understand the reasons for his mental turmoil and his denial of God. They are obviously many and complex, and we must come to a prudent decision about them, and answer them effectively. They sometimes spring from the demand for a more profound and purer presentation of religious truth, and an objection to forms of language and worship which somehow fall short of the ideal. These things we must remedy. We must do all we can to purify them and make them express more adequately the sacred reality of which they are the signs. We see these men serving a demanding and often a noble cause, fired with enthusiasm and idealism, dreaming of justice and progress and striving for a social order which they conceive of as the ultimate of perfection, and all but divine. This, for them, is the Absolute and the Necessary. It proves that nothing can tear from their hearts their yearning for God, the first and final cause of all things. It is the task of our teaching Office to reveal to them, with patience and wisdom, that all these things are immanent in human nature and transcend it. Again we see these men taking pains to work out scientific explanation of the universe by human reasoning, and they are often quite ingenuously enthusiastic about this. It is an enquiry which is all the less reprehensible in that it follows rules of logic very similar to those which are taught in the best schools of philosophy. Such an enquiry, far from providing them, as they suppose, with irrefutable arguments in defense of their atheism, must of its very nature bring them back finally to the metaphysic al and logical assertion of the existence of the supreme God...They are sometimes men of great breadth of mind, impatient with the mediocrity and self-seeking which infects so much of modern society. They are quick to make use of sentiments and expressions found in our Gospel, referring to the brotherhood of man, mutual aid, and human compassion. Shall we not one day be able to lead them back to the Christian sources of these moral values?... We do not therefore give up hope of the eventual possibility of a dialogue between these men and the Church..."

- ECCLESIAM SUAM, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI , AUGUST 6, 1964


This is also reiterated in the Catechism:


2125..."Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion."
I spent years trying to find a reasonable basis of faith in the Catholic Church. I would have liked nothing better to have comforted my then-wife who would end up sobbing over the thought that her atheist husband was going to Hell.

If there are rational reasons for faith in God somewhere in the Catholic Church, they're well-hidden, IMO, and I never found them... but not for lack of looking.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism? Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.

I honestly think it's some of us atheist that cannot accept that spirituality is not about evidence. Every time I see someone "asking for evidence" I get unnerved. It's like beating a dead horse to win the race.

So, I wouldn't blame some theist for not providing lack of evidence. I notice it's not just the lack of evidence that drives atheist away; but, the beliefs itself which, say Christianity, is terrible when you try to base your faith on the love of God but find contradiction in His actions of justice by killing instead. Combination of things not just lack of evidence.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
But, sometimes evidence is only as good as the person presenting it.
I'ma just leave this here without comment. No reason, not related at all..

oj-simpson-trial-1-600x450.jpg
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm going to reverse the order as I think my answer will make more sense that way.

Isn't withholding adherence to a belief system until sufficient evidence/reasoning has been provided merely displaying the prudence of atheism?

The key word is 'sufficient'. Sufficient for what exactly? For many thousands of years people have held a great diversity of religious beliefs and fought over them. Religious belief was largely sufficient for a pre-industrial and agricultural way of life. Widespread atheism remains a very recent phenemonan largely confined to the late 19th and 20th centuries. I would reason that religious belief was no longer sufficient as the scientific and technological forces unleashed by industrialisation necessitated a naturalistic understanding of the world in order to replicate its processes in predictable ways. The agricultural and industrial revolutions of the 18th century co-incided with the scientific revolution and the enlightenment. With new advances in equipment came the need for education beyond ruling elites and this education involved the scientific method to seek naturalistic explanations.

One of Darwin's proofs for evolution was evidence of domestic selection in farming and agriculture. Cattle, poultry etc, were breed for specific properties such as meat content, egg laying etc, and still are today. What he lacked was a mechanism to explain how man-made variation in species in 19th farming could be brought about by a entirely natural process. The answer came from Thomas Malthus who argued that there were natural limits to human population and competition for resources- Darwin applied this to natural selection.

I would argue that in the case of strong atheism, the question of what is sufficient evidence to reject the view of god holds as much weight as it does for a theist. In so far as reasoning or evidence must be sufficient, it must be sufficient to be acted on. our beliefs affect our actions and vice-versa. As we act in a new way in a industrial and post-industrial society, so we need new beliefs as religion is no longer sufficient for a society. However, as we are not masters of our own social organisation but are subject to various hidden forces, like the evulation of "public opinion", the self-organisation of "market forces", and the deep complexities of "human nature" we remain a society that cannot obtain full or scientific knowledge. There therefore is not a sufficient basis for eliminating religioud belief as we are still the prisoners of forces we do not control.

Do you think the flawed reasoning (cosmological argument, "something from nothing", arguments from ignorance, etc.) of the theist is to blame for atheists' refusing to "buy into" deities of any kind.

No. I think an intelligent theist can make a very good argument based on logically consistent premises. The difficulty is that an intelligent theist won't accept things on authority as an act of faith, so there is a tension there. There remains a continued gap in our understanding of the natural world and of human society which can well be filled by a god of the gaps. There is a gulf between explanations which attribute the cause of pheneomena to nature (materialist) and consciousness (idealist) and this conflict often manifests itself as a conflict between religion and science as well as atheism and religion. I would point out that not all atheism or science is materialist and there remain good reasons to be sceptical as to whether it should be. e.g. the hard problem of consciousness.

I've often thought about this question, but I have yet to see it on this forum. The question at hand is whether theists should blame themselves for the lack of belief of atheists due to their failure to provide valid, reasoned, and supported arguments for their belief.

This is very much focuses on the tension between reason and faith. if someone accept something on authority and on faith, it means that they accept that the authority is right. To question that authority, whether it be of a church or a deity runs contary to the nature of the belief. It is alot easier to blame an atheist than admit the possibility that a religious belief, organisation or authority is at fault. This is particuarly true if you have an omnipotent and omnsicent god as an authority figure as god cannot be wrong nor can the atheists lack of belief be anything other than gods plan. I think a theist may well end up having to interpret the existence of atheists as part of the conflict between omnipotence, omnibenevolence and omniscience in the problem of evil. e.g. Are atheists evil for rejecting god and do I owe them an explanation for my faith?

To make a reasoned argument for religion will involve a great deal of questions. I suspect the easiest way to cope with them is to retreat from an objectively existing god to the subjective experience of mysticism and the inner world. That remains largely beyond the realm of science and reason to find naturalistic explanations and is a space where faith can remain. This is however only a defence of faith, rather than an assertion that faith is objectively true and can therefore be relevant to an atheist.

I know that there are reasoned arguments for belief but the sheer complexity and audacity of the task requires a very keen intellect and someone who is emotionally invested in it. Reason is a very individualistic attribute and so runs contary to organised religion, reliance on existing scripture and traditions. scepticism and faith are not mutually exclusive, but they both have tolerances. a sceptic will almost by definition by a weak agnostic and such scepticism is contary to fundamentalist beliefs that are both more attractive and fulfilling to fill the void, although it is only in the short-run. if you need a quick fix to overcome the nihilism of the age, jumping in the deep-end is alot easier but comes with the risk of drowning out your reason. I imagine that the emotional pull of religion is often more powerful than reason. it is alot easier to be a fundamentalist than to be a sceptical theist; given the amount of time and effort to all but create a belief system, I would consider myself very fortunate to have met anyone of that level of intelligence and ability. We have a few on RF but for the reasons spelled out above I imagine it is alot easier not to be this way inclined.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
But, sometimes evidence is only as good as the person presenting it.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. You could mean that certain sources of information are more reliable than others, which goes without saying. You could mean that inaccurate information can be made to seem believable if the person presenting it has the skill to do so. I would agree with that, too. Of course, the opposite holds true, as well. Still, I believe that when it gets right down to it, it's not so much the presenter or the evidence; it's something that's not so easy to pinpoint. But that's just me.
 
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