Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Considering the different groups practicing Judaism, how vague is the word, /in a religious sense/, actually?
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How 'vague', is the word /label ''Judaism''?/ religiously/
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Tumah
Veteran Member
If you ask me there's only one group practicing Judaism...
Pretty vague by now. My thought is that it is a spectrum of beliefs from ultra-conservative to ultra-liberal but too many years old to be relevant to non-Jews.
I would agree as an Orthodox Jew , though i accept there are variations in practice
Jedster
Well-Known Member
An example of ultra-liberal.
I was recently invited to a Jewish service at someone's house in my area. The Rabbi was female and the people there were Jews and non-Jews.At the beginning of the service(which was in English and Hebrew), she said, "If you don't like the use of the word 'God' just use another word".
It isn't vague, there is only Rabbinic Judaism classed by Orthodox Judaism as being Kosher; the rest aren't even Jewish according to some.
I don't know if you would use the site rules as a guideline but on religiousforums.com we sometimes have to make a distinction about who is permitted to post in the Judaism dir. Technically speaking most people in history that identify as Jewish are Torah keeping. I'd say about 89% or better (guess) if we sum everyone in history, but the term is not defined in 'Scripture'. Usually people who claim to be Jewish are lumped in with Torah keepers. People who don't keep Torah usually do not identify themselves as Jewish, and that is mainly because they don't want to be confused with the Torah keeping people. That is usually the baseline for what Jewish means. Then there are those who partially do keep Torah and identify as Jewish, and they can since its not a scripturally defined term. They cannot undo all of the centuries of Torah keeping however. That is written in indelible ink, but there isn't a scripture verse that says 'This is a Jew and etc etc + geneology makes you a Jew etc'. For that reason this site religiousforums.com dedicates the Judaism DIR to 'Religious Jews'. That is the site counts people who 1. claim to be Jewish and 2. Do not object to Torah keeping and 3. Demonstrate an understanding of Torah. People who are weak in 1, 2 or 3 can be restricted from using the Judaism dir. People who are weak on these points are sometimes part of the dir, but its mainly a forum for religious Jews.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Oh don't worry this Thread is going to be good.
rosends
Well-Known Member
IMHO the word Judaism has three uses, and the fact that there are these 4 is at the heart of what makes it confusing:
1. Internally, by people who feel bound by some level of Mosaic and rabbinic authority and law. There are differing levels of practice but all are based on belief that "Judaism" is defined by a set of rules and expectations
2. Internally by people who do not feel bound by these rules because they see the culture, heritage and mythos as being formative of crafting an identity not based in belief
3. Externally used by people who see the belief system and faith through their own theology and redefine the term based on their understanding.
4. Externally, as used by people trying to make sense of the inherent confusion caused by 1 and 2, or buy into the idea that according to 1 and 2, 3 is still valid..
Group 1 would say it is not vague. Group 2 would say it can be vague. Group 3 would say it is way past just vague in one sense but possibly not vague in another sense. Group 4 is caught in the middle of all this.
1. Internally, by people who feel bound by some level of Mosaic and rabbinic authority and law. There are differing levels of practice but all are based on belief that "Judaism" is defined by a set of rules and expectations
2. Internally by people who do not feel bound by these rules because they see the culture, heritage and mythos as being formative of crafting an identity not based in belief
3. Externally used by people who see the belief system and faith through their own theology and redefine the term based on their understanding.
4. Externally, as used by people trying to make sense of the inherent confusion caused by 1 and 2, or buy into the idea that according to 1 and 2, 3 is still valid..
Group 1 would say it is not vague. Group 2 would say it can be vague. Group 3 would say it is way past just vague in one sense but possibly not vague in another sense. Group 4 is caught in the middle of all this.
Tumah
Veteran Member
That's interesting.
Doesn't seem vague at all to me.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I'm not being trying to be mean. I feature of Conservative and leftward Jewry seems to be the belief that the commandments no longer apply today for one reason or another.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
IMO, no one can define "Judaism" because there are variations and always has been, whether that be in the form of different branches, variations of opinion within any one branch, or all of the above.
"Judaism" is an abstract term that doesn't exist except at the subjective level. It is not a static entity, never has been one, and never will be one in all likelihood. Therefore, in reality, we are pretty much "reform Jews", but only some will admit it.
But like in pretty much all other religions, there's an element that takes the "not a true Scotsman" approach, and what does that really accomplish except division and all the nastiness that can come out of it? As Jews, one would think we would go out of our way to avoid that since we suffered so much under accusations of being "not true Germans", for example.
Therefore, with me, if someone says they practice "Judaism", I tend to take them at their word instead of subjecting them to some sort of inquisition to determine political correctness.
"Judaism" is an abstract term that doesn't exist except at the subjective level. It is not a static entity, never has been one, and never will be one in all likelihood. Therefore, in reality, we are pretty much "reform Jews", but only some will admit it.
But like in pretty much all other religions, there's an element that takes the "not a true Scotsman" approach, and what does that really accomplish except division and all the nastiness that can come out of it? As Jews, one would think we would go out of our way to avoid that since we suffered so much under accusations of being "not true Germans", for example.
Therefore, with me, if someone says they practice "Judaism", I tend to take them at their word instead of subjecting them to some sort of inquisition to determine political correctness.