Being "transgender" is a form of gender stereotyping.

[1137]

So apparently I hold a "surprising" position in this, but I don't understand the recent transgender movements. In case one doesn't know, being transgender would essentially be like an individual who is physically/biologically a woman having "masculine" mental state and so considering themselves a male. See the problem? Transgender individuals buy right in and add to gender stereotyping by deciding they can't feel how they do as the sex they are. Women can have certain psychological mindsets because they're too masculine and vise versa.

Whether we are male or female is determined by physical and biological factors, which is the entire point of the definitions. Beyond that, gender equality says let people be who they are. Transgender movements, on the other hand, say men and women are only allowed to feel certain ways.

Thoughts?

Also, I understand transgender is kind of an umbrella term. I'm discussing men/women who are fully biologically / physically one sex and want go be another.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So apparently I hold a "surprising" position in this, but I don't understand the recent transgender movements. In case one doesn't know, being transgender would essentially be like an individual who is physically/biologically a woman having "masculine" mental state and so considering themselves a male. See the problem? Transgender individuals buy right in and add to gender stereotyping by deciding they can't feel how they do as the sex they are. Women can have certain psychological mindsets because they're too masculine and vise versa.

Whether we are male or female is determined by physical and biological factors, which is the entire point of the definitions. Beyond that, gender equality says let people be who they are. Transgender movements, on the other hand, say men and women are only allowed to feel certain ways.

Thoughts?

Also, I understand transgender is kind of an umbrella term. I'm discussing men/women who are fully biologically / physically one sex and want go be another.

I was told it is more wanting to be who they are without conforming to gender roles (women wear pink, boys blue). It is about identifying oneself by ones sex. For example, I am a female and believe that is how I intended to be. If I wanted to "change" that would be weird for me because I "know" nothing else is supposed to be attached to my body. If I changed to male "mindset" and biological views, I would feel the primal need to protect females "in general"; I do not. In a relationship, I feel the need to take care of my girlfriend. As a biological protector l, I do not.

From what I understand my view is completely opposite of someone who identifies as transgender. They, say women,(correct me if Im wrong) may not have a feeling "something does not belong" or "extra parts". If anything they may feel something is missing. Their protective mindset and biological makeup that is submissive may fight with each other because I am told it is not just about the sex but the mind is in the wrong body.

If you take away everyones gender and everyone is forced to stray from gender roles, people who identify as transgender may not be. They would be accepted by who they sre, how they express themselves, and by how they identify themselves. Unfortuntely, life does not work that way. We GLBT want people to accept who we are not convince others to see our views as theirs.

 

[dust1n]

So apparently I hold a "surprising" position in this, but I don't understand the recent transgender movements. In case one doesn't know, being transgender would essentially be like an individual who is physically/biologically a woman having "masculine" mental state and so considering themselves a male. See the problem? Transgender individuals buy right in and add to gender stereotyping by deciding they can't feel how they do as the sex they are. Women can have certain psychological mindsets because they're too masculine and vise versa.

Whether we are male or female is determined by physical and biological factors, which is the entire point of the definitions. Beyond that, gender equality says let people be who they are. Transgender movements, on the other hand, say men and women are only allowed to feel certain ways.

Thoughts?

Also, I understand transgender is kind of an umbrella term. I'm discussing men/women who are fully biologically / physically one sex and want go be another.

Well, I certainly see what you are saying, I think there are transgender people out there who don't basically just co-op stereotypes of the opposite gender and then start acting it out.

But, I do find it a tad bit confusing sometimes. For example, a male feels like he is more a female, so he dons nice clothes and make-up. But there is nothing about those things that are innately female. A female might wear loose clothing and wear whatever. How would dressing like the stereotype female, as opposed to a non-stereotype female, as opposed to just a male, accurately reflect the desire the being of the opposite gender, I wonder...

So, I do hope to see some good replies to maybe parse some of this stuff out.

 

[oldbadger]

transgender
transˈdʒɛndə,trɑːns-,-nz-/
adjective

1. denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender.

People are unique.
All people.
And so, being transgender is not an absolute condition, it varies, just as heterosexual men and women can feel differently about themselves and their sexuality.
I knew a male neighbour who dressed and looked like a woman, and who could wear very high heels whilst riding his bicycle. His partner was a woman who dressed and appeared as if a man. Why would we feel the need to categorise those two people, or any people?
I can understand why we feel the need to label human conditions, but it's sad that we do need to do this.

 

[gsa]

So apparently I hold a "surprising" position in this, but I don't understand the recent transgender movements. In case one doesn't know, being transgender would essentially be like an individual who is physically/biologically a woman having "masculine" mental state and so considering themselves a male. See the problem? Transgender individuals buy right in and add to gender stereotyping by deciding they can't feel how they do as the sex they are. Women can have certain psychological mindsets because they're too masculine and vise versa.

Whether we are male or female is determined by physical and biological factors, which is the entire point of the definitions. Beyond that, gender equality says let people be who they are. Transgender movements, on the other hand, say men and women are only allowed to feel certain ways.

Thoughts?

Also, I understand transgender is kind of an umbrella term. I'm discussing men/women who are fully biologically / physically one sex and want go be another.

No, I do not think that they are saying men and women can only have certain psychological traits. They are saying that they have psychological traits that they associate with masculinity and femininity, and that their gender identity (and anyone's gender identity) is entitled to a certain level of social respect, in the form of anti-discrimination prohibitions, among other things. I do not think that they are saying anything about how those of us who do not so identify have to feel about masculinity and femininity.

 

[Revoltingest]

I knew a male neighbour who dressed and looked like a woman, and who could wear very high heels whilst riding his bicycle. His partner was a woman who dressed and appeared as if a man. Why would we feel the need to categorise those two people, or any people?
I can understand why we feel the need to label human conditions, but it's sad that we do need to do this.

You said you wouldn't tell!

Anyway, gender identity is not about stereotypes, but rather having a mind which is not the same gender as one's body...IMO.
Must be very rough.

 

[1137]

You said you wouldn't tell!

Anyway, gender identity is not about stereotypes, but rather having a mind which is not the same gender as one's body...IMO.
Must be very rough.

I'm not exactly sure how this differs from simply pretending something is true that isn't, though that could be from lack of experience. Gender is a specific thing based on ones actual biology. If you have male parts and male chromosomes then you are male, and that's ALL it says. So how is pretending otherwise based on how I feel different from asking someone to acknowledge me as a non-human being (I've actually always felt this lol) or to set a place for my imaginary friend?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not exactly sure how this differs from simply pretending something is true that isn't, though that could be from lack of experience. Gender is a specific thing based on ones actual biology. If you have male parts and male chromosomes then you are male, and that's ALL it says. So how is pretending otherwise based on how I feel different from asking someone to acknowledge me as a non-human being (I've actually always felt this lol) or to set a place for my imaginary friend?

Gender is more than a physique.
Aside from the usual differences in thoughts & feelings, there often appears to be a profound sense of which gender one is.....& sometimes there's a mismatch.
I presume that it's not pretending, because of the certainty, suffering & great difficulty of trans surgery.
So I generally take what trans folk say about their situation as sincere & accurate.

 

[Mister Emu]

Whether we are male or female is determined by physical and biological factors, which is the entire point of the definitions. Beyond that, gender equality says let people be who they are. Transgender movements, on the other hand, say men and women are only allowed to feel certain ways.

Thoughts?

Gender Identity Disorder is more than the desire to embrace gender roles traditionally viewed as reserved for members of the opposite sex. It also include a body dysphoria, the idea that there is something flawed with their physical make-up.

So how is pretending otherwise based on how I feel different from asking someone to acknowledge me as a non-human being (I've actually always felt this lol) or to set a place for my imaginary friend?

It ultimately isn't. They are men or women in their heads, and so we are asked to go along with it to ease the distress caused by the mental disorder.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Thoughts?

I cannot accept myself as male. I have beat myself up mentally, very severely, trying to just live that way. It won't work, and it can't work.
But, at the same time, I do not consider myself to be a "girly girl" or very feminine (that may be due to Asperger's, it may be do to other things, I really don't dwell on it), but I am definitely cannot accept myself as male without a feeling of self-betrayal and defeat.

So, I do hope to see some good replies to maybe parse some of this stuff out.

It's very much a social thing. It does, to an extent, go to a social stereotype, but we internally wired to have some sort of gender identity, and it is society that decides what is feminine and what is masculine. Of course that does over simply things, but to loosely quote/paraphrase Eddie Izzard, it is society that decides what styles of jeans to sell in the women's department.
Trust me when I say you are not the only one confused by it. Myself, at times (this one I do feel is strongly related to having Asperger's) I feel like Spock trying to rationalize something that is entirely emotional against logic. But that creates a lot of inner turmoil, anxiety, and depression trying to rationalize this.
But, I do know that I tend to perk up when someone refers to me with female nouns, whereas male nouns do not seem or feel appropriate.
For me, being male is a herdish das man confinement. For me, dasein is being a hard-rock chick. I would totally do the blue hair like Alissa White-Gluz if I could get away with it (I don't think my boss would like it), and like Shauna Reynolds the bass guitar is my "weapon" of choice. Pat Benetar, Jinx Dawson, Lita Ford, even though rock 'n roll and metal is more typically associated with masculinity (I claim I strongly and firmly challenge), it is these types of women that inspire me. Why not Buckethead, Cliff Burton, or Ozzy Osbourne? It just does not "work" or "fit well" in my head. Both the men and women are tattooed and pierced, both are clad in black, and Angela Gassow is even known for using the sports black-streaks under her eyes, but, ultimately, I cannot accept myself as male. I cannot manage to continue such a bleak and dreary life of being condemned to an such an inner and lowly state of das man.

 

[psychoslice]

They are what they are, no need to label it, then you have to live up to that label.

 

[gnomon]

They are what they are, no need to label it, then you have to live up to that label.

Who is what they are?

What are you talking about?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are what they are, no need to label it, then you have to live up to that label.

I graduated college with honors. In many ways, I do not "live up" to the label of honor student. Especially my "recreational habits," which many take as something no good student would even consider doing. Except, of course, the other good students who are doing it and laughing at those who think it hurts academic performance.

 

[dust1n]

I cannot accept myself as male. I have beat myself up mentally, very severely, trying to just live that way. It won't work, and it can't work.
But, at the same time, I do not consider myself to be a "girly girl" or very feminine (that may be due to Asperger's, it may be do to other things, I really don't dwell on it), but I am definitely cannot accept myself as male without a feeling of self-betrayal and defeat.

It's very much a social thing. It does, to an extent, go to a social stereotype, but we internally wired to have some sort of gender identity, and it is society that decides what is feminine and what is masculine. Of course that does over simply things, but to loosely quote/paraphrase Eddie Izzard, it is society that decides what styles of jeans to sell in the women's department.
Trust me when I say you are not the only one confused by it. Myself, at times (this one I do feel is strongly related to having Asperger's) I feel like Spock trying to rationalize something that is entirely emotional against logic. But that creates a lot of inner turmoil, anxiety, and depression trying to rationalize this.
But, I do know that I tend to perk up when someone refers to me with female nouns, whereas male nouns do not seem or feel appropriate.
For me, being male is a herdish das man confinement. For me, dasein is being a hard-rock chick. I would totally do the blue hair like Alissa White-Gluz if I could get away with it (I don't think my boss would like it), and like Shauna Reynolds the bass guitar is my "weapon" of choice. Pat Benetar, Jinx Dawson, Lita Ford, even though rock 'n roll and metal is more typically associated with masculinity (I claim I strongly and firmly challenge), it is these types of women that inspire me. Why not Buckethead, Cliff Burton, or Ozzy Osbourne? It just does not "work" or "fit well" in my head. Both the men and women are tattooed and pierced, both are clad in black, and Angela Gassow is even known for using the sports black-streaks under her eyes, but, ultimately, I cannot accept myself as male. I cannot manage to continue such a bleak and dreary life of being condemned to an such an inner and lowly state of das man.

That's understandable. No wants to be held to societies' expectations of one does. Just curious though, I guess how much of a distinction is there. Like, Pat Benetar might influence you more than Ozzy, but you'd related more with Ozzy as to say, Celine Deon, or something?

 

[psychoslice]

Who is what they are?

What are you talking about?

Labels silly.

 

[psychoslice]

I graduated college with honors. In many ways, I do not "live up" to the label of honor student. Especially my "recreational habits," which many take as something no good student would even consider doing. Except, of course, the other good students who are doing it and laughing at those who think it hurts academic performance.

Yes and that's the way it should be, stuff the labels.

 

[gnomon]

Labels silly.

Yes they are......but sometimes not.

There are people who suffer from gender identity disorder.

Yet....there are people who suffer from sexual identity.

Then there are those who are intersex of which many of whom have demanded a third sexual classification not only for social but for legal reasons.

Then there are those of us who suffer from labels of mental disabilities.........that open's up a whole can of worms.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's understandable. No wants to be held to societies' expectations of one does. Just curious though, I guess how much of a distinction is there. Like, Pat Benetar might influence you more than Ozzy, but you'd related more with Ozzy as to say, Celine Deon, or something?

I'd have to more with Ozzy than Celine because hearing Celine's cover of "I will always love you" makes me want to gouge my ears.
But, I used hard rock and metal examples because it is what I more identify with. Metal, as a whole, is known for appealing more to "outsiders" and "outcasts."
If I were more into Country, the examples would probably change to identifying more with Dolly Parton (although I do not want the weight of her mega huge boobs; I know a girl who needed breast reduction because of back pains due to her mega-inflated breasts that never went down after pregnancy and breast feeding (she went from having small breasts in high school to having watermelons after giving birth)) and Loretta Lynn rather than Travis Tritt and Johnny Cash.
I am, at heart and soul, a metal head. Joan Jett and Helena Michaelsen appeals to me far more than Patsy Cline or Reba Mcentire because, probably, I am of a demograph (far more than just being transsexual) that metal tends to appeal to.
Although I listen to many different genres of music, and frequently I am question with "how can you like this if your like that," metal is just something that is a part of me. I grew up around an industrial town. Maybe, like Rob Halford, I breathed the metal into me and it became a part of me.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes they are......but sometimes not.

There are people who suffer from gender identity disorder.

Yet....there are people who suffer from sexual identity.

Then there are those who are intersex of which many of whom have demanded a third sexual classification not only for social but for legal reasons.

Then there are those of us who suffer from labels of mental disabilities.........that open's up a whole can of worms.

Yes I am labelled schizophrenia, but I am not that, I am much more than a label.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes and that's the way it should be, stuff the labels.

That is ideal, but because my body was born with such turmoil I do identify as a transwoman. Though I like to ignore the "trans" part, the facts are, as I like to put as a part of psychodrama that is really nothing more than a grandiose exhibition that is nothing more than self-gratifying running of my imagination that builds on the shock that Alice Cooper taught me to appreciate, I was born with a cursed body that has betrayed me. I am a woman. I have nearly killed myself over that fact. But, I can't help it if the gods hate me. (don't think too much into it: if you are a metal head, it should make sense, if not, don't over think it.)