A xenophobic panic?

[Valjean]

I saw an interesting -- make that disturbing -- BBC clip I'd like to share of a journalist interviewing a terrified xenophobe.
First she advocates a 'Great wall of China' style US-Mexican barrier -- apparently unaware of the costs of masonry construction or the fact that the original proved ineffective -- then she declares the immigration an "invasion" and advocates shooting them.
What's disturbing is that I fear she represents a significant and vocal demographic, and one the Republicans seem to be pandering to.
http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36863008

Reporter: "If there's a wall, people will always find a way to get over it, to get round it,.."
Xenophobe: "You bet".
R: "How do you stop that, then?"
X: "Personally, I'd shoot them."
R: "I mean, that's extreme."
X:"They're invading our country."

This lady probably considers herself a good American and good Christian, but these don't strike me as either American or Christian values.

Discuss.

 

[psychoslice]

Well lets face it, there is concern about other cultures, and their backward thinking.

 

[Valjean]

Could you clarify "backward thinking?"

 

[Laika]

I saw an interesting -- make that disturbing -- BBC clip I'd like to share of a journalist interviewing a terrified xenophobe.
First she advocates a 'Great wall of China' style US-Mexican barrier -- apparently unaware of the costs of masonry construction or the fact that the original proved ineffective -- then she declares the immigration an "invasion" and advocates shooting them.
What's disturbing is that I fear she represents a significant and vocal demographic, and one the Republicans seem to be pandering to.
http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36863008



This lady probably considers herself a good American and good Christian, but these don't strike me as either American or Christian values.

Discuss.

I would be surprised if that wasn't true that this is representative of a group in US opinion, as pretty much the same fears fed into voting for Brexit in the UK and probably across Europe as well.
Sadly, there historical precedents for restrictions on immigration based on racial qualification in the USA:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

Whether it is a plausible interpretation of "American" values or "Christian" values very much depends on whether someone assumes those values are exclusive to certain groups, such as along racial lines. If Americans feel insecure and on the defensive, the desire to defend "freedom, democracy and the American way of life" from foreigners kicks in. I think the Ku Klux Klan believed that the only real Americans were WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestents) and I don't think that view was limited to them either, particularly in the beginning of the 20th century.

We are seeing a resurgence in the racism of individualistic free market capitalism, rather than the national socialist variety (although that is in the background and arguably strengthened by the shift in perceptions). It isn't quite as destructive but nevertheless the argument that economic inequalities reflect racial or biological differences as a basis for discriminating in the market place may well be on the come back. Discriminating on the basis of group identity may be considered rational when you think of "other" cultures as collectivist if and therefore as not having scope for diversity or individual difference. We tend to recognise the differences of those groups we are more familiar with than those who are alien to us as the latter simply blurr into a homogenous, monolithic bloc.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, America is experiencing a wave of far-right resurgence, same as Europe. Trump's campaign is mainstreaming it. Very frightening.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well lets face it, there is concern about other cultures, and their backward thinking.

It isn't xenophobia to consider that immigration, either controlled or uncontrolled, will alter our culture.
We should consider how the country will change, & decide what we want to absorb, & what we
should oppose.
Among the various immigrants, there are some beliefs, practices & traditions we shouldn't blindly incorporate.....
- Female genital mutilation
- Keeping women (even non-Muslim ones) modestly dressed (by oppressive standards)
- Other legal systems (Shariah)
- Criminal organizations

Other questions......
- Do we want them to assimilate, remain non-integrated, or some combination?
- Do we want open or controlled borders?
- Should we manage which cultures make up what percentage of immigrants?
- What of the problem with Scots?

 

[Father Heathen]

While it's understandable why many dislike illegal immigration due to the negative impact it can have on things, people should pity rather than hate illegal immigrants because what they do is out of desperation, not malice. They're only trying to seek a better life for themselves and their families. They're still human beings and should be treated as such regardless of how you fell about illegal immigration.

That said, when someone migrates - legally or illegally - they should attempt to integrate or at least respect local laws, culture, and customs. However, if you're expecting your new host country to sacrifice its values (freedom, equality, etc.) in order to accommodate yours (sharia, etc.), then get your *** back over the fence, or back on the raft, or whatever.

 

[tytlyf]

Someone teaches them to be paranoid, angry and miserable. Their media does it on purpose.

 

[Demonslayer]

Could you clarify "backward thinking?"

Yldrawrof kniht t'nseod enoemos nehw ekil s'ti.

 

[LuisDantas]

Xenophoby is interesting, particularly from the perspective of one such as me who can't even pretend not to be descended from people who invaded and destroyed the native culture.

To further my view, it turns out that Brazil is peppered with significant amounts both of carefree miscigenation even of cultures that largely keep to their own (such as the Japanese) and pockets of clear heritance of foreign cultures, sometimes of a very large distance. We have a reasonable number of Lebanese descendants, for instance.

Yet people are people, and they are largely shaped by the expectations and example of the social environment. We should embrace the diversity of origins and learn from each other and to live together as best as we can.

Yet, at the same time, cultural shocks are very much a reality; population increases for any reason do bring significant challenges in any place, particularly when they are sudden; and it is simply not a good thing for people who interact with each other or apply to the same resources to lack a functional understanding and acceptance of each other. There are real challenges that must be dealt with soberly.

 

[Wu Wei]

- What of the problem with Scots?

Well I can only answer this one...in your own words

 

[Underhill]

It isn't xenophobia to consider that immigration, either controlled or uncontrolled, will alter our culture.
We should consider how the country will change, & decide what we want to absorb, & what we
should oppose.
Among the various immigrants, there are some beliefs, practices & traditions we shouldn't blindly incorporate.....
- Female genital mutilation
- Keeping women (even non-Muslim ones) modestly dressed (by oppressive standards)
- Other legal systems (Shariah)
- Criminal organizations

Other questions......
- Do we want them to assimilate, remain non-integrated, or some combination?
- Do we want open or controlled borders?
- Should we manage which cultures make up what percentage of immigrants?
- What of the problem with Scots?

Okay, but be realistic about it. We are not even remotely in danger of Shariah law becoming the law of the land.

About the only cultural shifts we may see are more burritos on the menu and better attendance at Catholic mass.

But I am in agreement about the Scotts. Those damn Scott brothers are ruining American values with their renovations and what not!

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay, but be realistic about it. We are not even remotely in danger of Shariah law becoming the law of the land.

Of course.
I don't claim that any undesirable traits are overwhelming the country.
Instead, I speak of influence upon us.

About the only cultural shifts we may see are more burritos on the menu and better attendance at Catholic mass.

There are other possible shifts.
I'm simply urging that this should be thought about.....not ignored.
We don't & won't allow everyone to immigrate.
So we should think about our goals & standards.

But I am in agreement about the Scotts. Those damn Scott brothers are ruining American values with their renovations and what not!

Gentrifiers!

 

[Maponos]

With out of control liberalism and Marxism, cultural decay and decline, who could not expect any kind of resurgence of far right nationalism?

However, nationalism today isn't the same as it was before. In many cases, it can be more inclusive with those previously not welcome (homosexuals, for instance).

With the state that Western civilization is in right now coupled with severe moral decay, we can only expect there to be a complete destruction of Western civilization. Either it will transform into a very nationalist (albeit not the nationalism of old) civilization, or it will be destroyed in the same manner as when the Roman Empire and the old Western civilization fell with Christianity destroying the old religions. However, it would be Islam that replaces the 'old religion of Christianity' in the West.

We live in terrifying and uncertain times.

 

[LuisDantas]

@Maponos , what do you see as evidence of out of control liberalism and Marxism?

 

[Valjean]

Okay, but be realistic about it. We are not even remotely in danger of Shariah law becoming the law of the land.

I wouldn't be so sure -- though it may come with a cross rather than a crescent.
There's been a resurgence of militant "Christianism" in the US. David Duke just announced a Senate run and a Dominionist has been chosen to run as Vice President.

About the only cultural shifts we may see are more burritos on the menu and better attendance at Catholic mass.

Good point. The Hispanic immigrants are not radically different from traditional WASPs, culturally.
NY Times study reports no problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/opinion/the-beneficial-impact-of-immigrants.html?_r=0

With out of control liberalism and Marxism, cultural decay and decline, who could not expect any kind of resurgence of far right nationalism?

Wouldn't "out of control liberalism" be more likely to produce a prosperous, egalitarian, co-operative society, on the Scandanavian model?
Historically it's the authoritarian Right that creates tyrannies.

With the state that Western civilization is in right now coupled with severe moral decay, we can only expect there to be a complete destruction of Western civilization. Either it will transform into a very nationalist (albeit not the nationalism of old) civilization, or it will be destroyed in the same manner as when the Roman Empire and the old Western civilization fell with Christianity destroying the old religions. However, it would be Islam that replaces the 'old religion of Christianity' in the West.

I fail to see this "moral decay." Can you give some examples?
It strikes me that Conventionalists have always condemned liberty, social change and novelty as decadence or moral decay.

We live in terrifying and uncertain times.

True. Uncertain times tend to produce a political shift to the right, and this, historically, has not turned out well.[/quote]

 

[psychoslice]

It isn't xenophobia to consider that immigration, either controlled or uncontrolled, will alter our culture.
We should consider how the country will change, & decide what we want to absorb, & what we
should oppose.
Among the various immigrants, there are some beliefs, practices & traditions we shouldn't blindly incorporate.....
- Female genital mutilation
- Keeping women (even non-Muslim ones) modestly dressed (by oppressive standards)
- Other legal systems (Shariah)
- Criminal organizations

Other questions......
- Do we want them to assimilate, remain non-integrated, or some combination?
- Do we want open or controlled borders?
- Should we manage which cultures make up what percentage of immigrants?
- What of the problem with Scots?

Yes, no matter how we look at it, its a big problem, but it shouldn't be, but then most believe their way is the only way, be that culture or whatever they believe, these are the ones we don't need in our own country.

 

[McBell]

- What of the problem with Scots?

put it in a smaller glass with cubed ice instead of crushed?

 

[Maponos]

@Maponos , what do you see as evidence of out of control liberalism and Marxism?

The ability of the far left to silence any dissenting opinions; Black Lives Matter; the rise of socialism in the West; the near absence of moral values; the covering up of crimes committed by immigrants in Scandinavian countries (particularly Sweden), Germany and presumably others; feminism as a cult; the progressive cult; the minority ruling over the majority (as in people who are such minuscule minorities and those minorities demanding special rights); the absolute silence on sensitive topics; the decaying right of freedom of speech (and yes, that does include the right to offend) among many other things.

Wouldn't "out of control liberalism" be more likely to produce a prosperous, egalitarian, co-operative society, on the Scandanavian model?
Historically it's the authoritarian Right that creates tyrannies.
I fail to see this "moral decay." Can you give some examples?

The exact opposite is happening, in fact. I have a Swedish friend who is a slightly more left leaning in some ways who rails against the current problems in Sweden.

If you fail to see the moral decay, then you most likely won't see it if someone presented it to you.

 

[LuisDantas]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, @Maponos