freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Apparently they experience gravity differently in Africa so we should let them create their own scientific theories that explain it from their experiences and also include black magic.
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Science must fall
- Thread starter freethinker44
- Start date
ak.yonathan
Active Member
Well, actually we don't understand what gravity is yet so it could very well be the case that general relativity is just plain wrong. Also, I don't understand this distinction between science and magic.
Of course it's wrong.
All theories are wrong, & are eventually replaced by better ones.
What distinguishes the good ones is that they're useful.
ak.yonathan
Active Member
Right, what I mean is that there could very well be a theory that is more useful than general relativity. A theory that could operate at a gravitational singularity comes to mind.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You mean Hogwarts is real?
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Idiocy, plain and simple.
I actually have some sympathy for what she is saying. Science takes the position that only the material is real and the universe is the material following natural laws. I, even as an eastern/Indian philosophy follower, believe there are planes of reality more real than the material and that the material is an expression from those higher realms.
Western science has done a great job of explaining the activity of the mundane material realm but western science also often carries with it an arrogant attitude that kind of chuckles at non-materialist thinking. Western science has its great place if it comes down from its arrogance (an arrogance that the speaker was calling 'colonial').
ak.yonathan
Active Member
Are you talking about immaterialism? If immaterialism is true, then we should develop scientific theories around it.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Science isn't "Western", it's universal. The truth is the same regardless of where you are from or where the discoverer is from. This is the same flaw in thinking that the young lady in the video suffers from. It is not arrogant to believe in something that has been tested repeatedly and proven, and discard what contradicts those models and has not and in many cases cannot be proven. The arrogance lies in believing black magic has equal or greater veracity than established fact because the fact was proven in a different hemisphere.
Immaterial to me means 'subtle material' in dimensions and vibratory levels not detectable by our physical senses and physical instruments. Theories on these things do exist in Vedic/Hindu thought and Theosophical traditions but not really in western science much beyond dark matter (matter not directly detectable by our physical senses and physical instruments).
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I want those magical lightning zapping powers!
I watched it. She's not saying Science is fake. She's saying that Science is being put forward as a gift from colonialism (which is the wrong way to teach it) and she apparently thinks it is being used to justify colonialism. Keep in mind that many African countries were French colonies and still use the French educational method that involves a lot of rote memorization. I disagree with throwing away all Scientific discovery, but I agree that independent verification and rejection or debate is healthy. That is the kernel of Science. They should by all means start a Fallist institute to thoroughly investigate whether any of the given Science facts are corrupt and whether anything has been hidden.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
She's pretty much saying it's inadequate because it doesn't accept some witchcraft superstition about being able to zap people with lightning bolts, and because of this it's a product of colonization that must go, because science cannot be "decolonized" so they have to begin again.
She should probably begin by educating herself about what science is, and why it totally rejects the possibility of people being able to "Zeus/Palpatine" people. Saying she has a "kernel of science" is like extending the same courtesy to those who vehemently reject evolution and wonder about if an "intelligent designer" fine tuned everything just for us.
There are also Vedic Sciences as an example. (see link)
I can't believe anybody, including myself, cannot see that western science is great at understanding most normal physical phenomena. The problem is when western science snickers at and denies the existence of things beyond its ability to investigate with physical senses and physical instruments. The problem with giving too much credit to western science is that it leads to a materialist-atheist (colonialist) worldview. Non-western sciences (occult, Vedic, theosophical, etc.) accept repeated observations from those that can sense beyond the physical giving them greater reach than western science.
From my study of a large body of different paranormal fields I am objectively convinced beyond reasonable doubt of the existence of dramatically important things not in the range of early 21st century science.
MD
qualiaphile
Ooh. That is bad I agree, but while her understanding of Science is not good she is right to rebel against colonialism. She may represent a common understanding of Science in her locality, and if so then the education system needs a zap!
I don't disagree, but the problem here is she can't educate herself about what science is once she's already been mislead about what it is. Her cup is full, and apparently she isn't the only one there who has been mislead about it. It is apparently a common problem, or there wouldn't be Falsists. I don't think she has the kernel of science, so please forgive that misunderstanding. I only mean that independent verification and rejection or debate is healthy and is the kernel of Science. I therefore think her attempt to break away and rethink things is not a bad thing. So while I would love to tell her to drop her superstition, I know that isn't really the core issue. The core issue is that her education system and her particular locality has resulted in a number of people who think Science is a kind of magic. That seems like a result of colonialism saying "Accept what colonialism and Science (our magic) have blessed you with!" All I am saying is that she doesn't understand Science, but she should. She ought to, but it appears (to me from the video) somebody imposed it upon her like a magical formula. They in effect spoiled her Scientific education by making it a non-investigative and un-questionable blessing from Europe. While she is wrong about Science she has perhaps identified her enemy correctly though I agree it would be awesome if she could just snap out of her superstition and read the definition of Science.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
While that is true, and I don't philosophically disagree, however, the expression it does seem has been hijacked by Creationists, where "question" becomes synonymous with "insertion." And it really does her no good to back up her position with a fantasy. I sympathize more with whoever shouted it's not true, because science does ultimately render such beliefs as stories. Maybe it wasn't the best way to do it, and apparently against some rules, but eventually someone's going to have to inform them people can't shoot lighting bolts from their hands or direct it at someone. And the reaction of the room, it reminds me why I doubted the Pew Research results Phil posted that showed a high number of Americans trust science, because science tells them they are wrong about many, many things they believe and invest their entire existence into, and I know a lot of people who believe the expression "you can't believe everything you see/read/hear on whatever medium" applies to science. Of course colonization is one thing, but the story of Newton is not going away just because they don't like Western ideas, no more than America can make the "Muslim" go away from algebra and coffee if the history of those things are ever discussed. It makes me wonder how she would feel learning that pretty much the entire premises of contemporary science revolves around Western and Eastern thinkers, especially the number of German and Jewish scientists who laid the foundations for the explosion of technology during the Atomic and Information Ages?
Perhaps.