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Being frightened

Rehan

Member
Hello, one of the main reasons I became a member of this forum is because I think I have been close to a mystical experience more than once while meditating. I don't know if that is what it is though, maybe this is more about meditation and prayer in general than mysticism? In any case, what happens is I have pleasant feelings in different parts of my body and also feel numb in several parts. Sometimes sensations of my hands or my entire body being like that of a giant etc. Nothing scary about that, but sometimes I get ''deeper'' and then I feel like if I just keep going ''something'' will happen... and about there I get scared. The first time it happened my thought was that I would disappear, die or my brain will stop functioning. It has happened a few times now and it happened again today and honestly it bothers me quite a bit.

I have, of course, searched on the internet and I find things like ''the ego is about to die and it tries to protect itself'' and so on, but I would like to get input from someone who reacts to my experience, not just reading about it. Maybe my description is too vague for anyone to give me advice? I don't know. But if someone feel like they could be of any help I would appreciate it.

Also, if there is anything wrong grammatically speaking, English is not my first language, so I'm not actually trying to butcher it. It just happens :p
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
So far as I know, Rehan, that's a fairly common experience. And, yes, I believe it's rooted in the ego's fear of death.

For whatever it might be worth, the way I handle it is to, as much as possible, acknowledge the response without judgement. If I catch myself judging the response as a good or bad thing, then I go a step further and try to acknowledge that new response (i.e. judging) without judgement, etc. etc. The idea is to allow dispassionate curiosity to take hold, rather than to quell curiosity with a rush to judgment.

Judgment seems also to be tied to goal or purpose, so when meditating, I try to do it for its own sake, rather than to obtain some goal or purpose.

I hope that helps.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Hello, one of the main reasons I became a member of this forum is because I think I have been close to a mystical experience more than once while meditating. I don't know if that is what it is though, maybe this is more about meditation and prayer in general than mysticism? In any case, what happens is I have pleasant feelings in different parts of my body and also feel numb in several parts. Sometimes sensations of my hands or my entire body being like that of a giant etc. Nothing scary about that, but sometimes I get ''deeper'' and then I feel like if I just keep going ''something'' will happen... and about there I get scared. The first time it happened my thought was that I would disappear, die or my brain will stop functioning. It has happened a few times now and it happened again today and honestly it bothers me quite a bit.

I have, of course, searched on the internet and I find things like ''the ego is about to die and it tries to protect itself'' and so on, but I would like to get input from someone who reacts to my experience, not just reading about it. Maybe my description is too vague for anyone to give me advice? I don't know. But if someone feel like they could be of any help I would appreciate it.

Also, if there is anything wrong grammatically speaking, English is not my first language, so I'm not actually trying to butcher it. It just happens :p
First, your command of English is admirable and your comments are very lucid. Those who are less experienced in this area will always moan on and on about "ego death", yadda yadda yadda. The thing to understand is that it is not a fear of so-called "ego death" it is simply a fear of the unknown. You don't know what lies on the other side of the experience and so there is a quite natural resistance to it. If it is any reassurance you have nothing to fear. You are not going to be swept away into some cosmic black hole of a void from which you will never return.

As @Sunstone expressed, simply relax. Like learning to ride a bike or learning to swim, it does take a few attempts to get it right. TRUST yourself and trust your environment. When you experience the resistance, simply relax and tell yourself "It's OK! Everything is fine. Relax!" Yes, you may encounter odd or unusual sensations but they will only seem odd or unusual for a short time. I wish you success in getting over this hurdle on your journey down the rabbit hole of inner reality. :D I hope this helps a bit.

Note: If this does not work, then there may be something wrong with your method. If that proves to be the case you are welcome to explain your usual routine and I'd be happy to offer a diplomatic critique.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
First, your command of English is admirable and your comments are very lucid. Those who are less experienced in this area will always moan on and on about "ego death", yadda yadda yadda. The thing to understand is that it is not a fear of so-called "ego death" it is simply a fear of the unknown. You don't know what lies on the other side of the experience and so there is a quite natural resistance to it. If it is any reassurance you have nothing to fear. You are not going to be swept away into some cosmic black hole of a void from which you will never return.

As @Sunstone expressed, simply relax. Like learning to ride a bike or learning to swim, it does take a few attempts to get it right. TRUST yourself and trust your environment. When you experience the resistance, simply relax and tell yourself "It's OK! Everything is fine. Relax!" Yes, you may encounter odd or unusual sensations but they will only seem odd or unusual for a short time. I wish you success in getting over this hurdle on your journey down the rabbit hole of inner reality. :D I hope this helps a bit.

Note: If this does not work, then there may be something wrong with your method. If that proves to be the case you are welcome to explain your usual routine and I'd be happy to offer a diplomatic critique.

In my opinion, Paul's giving great advice, Rehan! Especially about the fear of ego death being in reality a fear of the unknown.
 

Rehan

Member
First, your command of English is admirable and your comments are very lucid. Those who are less experienced in this area will always moan on and on about "ego death", yadda yadda yadda. The thing to understand is that it is not a fear of so-called "ego death" it is simply a fear of the unknown. You don't know what lies on the other side of the experience and so there is a quite natural resistance to it. If it is any reassurance you have nothing to fear. You are not going to be swept away into some cosmic black hole of a void from which you will never return.

As @Sunstone expressed, simply relax. Like learning to ride a bike or learning to swim, it does take a few attempts to get it right. TRUST yourself and trust your environment. When you experience the resistance, simply relax and tell yourself "It's OK! Everything is fine. Relax!" Yes, you may encounter odd or unusual sensations but they will only seem odd or unusual for a short time. I wish you success in getting over this hurdle on your journey down the rabbit hole of inner reality. :D I hope this helps a bit.

Note: If this does not work, then there may be something wrong with your method. If that proves to be the case you are welcome to explain your usual routine and I'd be happy to offer a diplomatic critique.



Thanks to you @YmirGF and @Sunstone . I appreciate your advice :) although I imagine it will take some time to get over the fear, but I suppose only I can deal with that. It also feels good to just get validation of some kind regarding experiences like this because I feel like most people in my surroundings would look at me weird o_O if I told them.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Thanks to you @YmirGF and @Sunstone . I appreciate your advice :) although I imagine it will take some time to get over the fear, but I suppose only I can deal with that. It also feels good to just get validation of some kind regarding experiences like this because I feel like most people in my surroundings would look at me weird o_O if I told them.

Getting looked at weird is the occupational hazard of the mystic! :D
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Getting looked at weird is the occupational hazard of the mystic! :D
Some of us have actually made it into an art-form. If the inevitable is going to happen one may as well get ready to capitalize on it. :)

Thanks to you @YmirGF and @Sunstone . I appreciate your advice :) although I imagine it will take some time to get over the fear, but I suppose only I can deal with that. It also feels good to just get validation of some kind regarding experiences like this because I feel like most people in my surroundings would look at me weird o_O if I told them.
Anytime, @Rehan ... Due to the weird looks I got I just shut up for several decades. There was no possibility anyone around could understand what I was going through and so I just stopped talking about it. It was during that period that I became a master of deflection and my relations improved dramatically because I was no longer an evangelical mystic, LOL. Think Elmer Fudd on a god trip.... Yeah, that went well.... :rolleyes:


Pro Tip: You might want to sit down and analyze why you are feeling fearful. Perhaps it could be beneficial exploring the ideas held about said states of consciousness and shedding some light on to why you have the apprehension(s).
 

roger1440

I do stuff
Hello, one of the main reasons I became a member of this forum is because I think I have been close to a mystical experience more than once while meditating. I don't know if that is what it is though, maybe this is more about meditation and prayer in general than mysticism? In any case, what happens is I have pleasant feelings in different parts of my body and also feel numb in several parts. Sometimes sensations of my hands or my entire body being like that of a giant etc. Nothing scary about that, but sometimes I get ''deeper'' and then I feel like if I just keep going ''something'' will happen... and about there I get scared. The first time it happened my thought was that I would disappear, die or my brain will stop functioning. It has happened a few times now and it happened again today and honestly it bothers me quite a bit.

I have, of course, searched on the internet and I find things like ''the ego is about to die and it tries to protect itself'' and so on, but I would like to get input from someone who reacts to my experience, not just reading about it. Maybe my description is too vague for anyone to give me advice? I don't know. But if someone feel like they could be of any help I would appreciate it.

Also, if there is anything wrong grammatically speaking, English is not my first language, so I'm not actually trying to butcher it. It just happens :p
There are no negative side effects. You are not going to start swinging from a chandelier stark naked or bark like a dog. If what you are doing is working for you, then just let go and let it happen. Trust will cast out fear. Imagine yourself standing and falling back and a very close friend catches you. You need that kind of trust. What is your native language?



A very good book on the topic is Religions, Values, and Peak Experiences by Abraham Maslow. It's an easy read and only 122 pages. It is available in the PDF format here:

http://www.bahaistudies.net/asma/peak_experiences.pdf

crazy1.jpg
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
sometimes I get ''deeper'' and then I feel like if I just keep going ''something'' will happen... and about there I get scared. The first time it happened my thought was that I would disappear, die or my brain will stop functioning. It has happened a few times now and it happened again today and honestly it bothers me quite a bit.
I'll resist my temptation to assume the fear and pulling back thing you mentioned is necessarily due to the sense of fear of letting go into the Unknown. While that is certainly well-known to me and something I could talk about at length, there's something else that might be going on. I just want to get a better feel for what you're describing here.

When you say you feel your brain might stop functioning, would you describe that as a sense of going "blank", like you will simply blink out of existence? The thing to understand is that in meditation you never go blank. You never become unconscious. You never become unaware. Quite the opposite. You become superconscious. Your awareness becomes become crystal clear, because you have removed all the distracting mental noise that pulls our minds here or there. Think of it like washing off the dirt on the windshield you are looking through. You will sense of course what I would describe as doors into deeper awareness, passing from one level to the next, greater and greater presence, subtleties, and clarity, but going blank, someone turning the lights off, is not a way to describe any of that!

If you are experiencing feeling like you're going blank out, that your "brain will stop functioning" as you stated, that sounds more like something called Sinking Mind. That's not a good thing actually, and hence why you would describe it as unpleasant. I've had that happen a couple times in the past, and I know what you mean about it feeling fearful. That's not the same kind of fear as when you let go of the ego and dissolve into God. The latter is a matter of the fear of trusting the Unknown, which is no small thing mind you! But the former is more like the sensation of falling out of bed and disorientation, like any sense of grounding is completely gone.

What causes that is a lack of being present in meditation. It's like a momentary drifting out of mediation into 'zoning out' sort of thing, a sense of not knowing where you are and catching yourself. Being grounded in meditation is very important to maintain. I might have some suggestions for meditation practice that may help. Can I ask what you do in how you approach your practice? You mentioned it as a type of 'prayer"? Do you meditated while directing your thoughts to an object of your faith and beliefs? I see you identify as Catholic. Are you trying Fr. Thomas Keating's Centering Prayer, or some other approach?
 
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Rehan

Member
Pro Tip: You might want to sit down and analyze why you are feeling fearful. Perhaps it could be beneficial exploring the ideas held about said states of consciousness and shedding some light on to why you have the apprehension(s).

Well around the time it first happened (don't remember if it was before or after) I was reading a book about Jewish mysticism and kabbalah. In it they mentioned old Jewish mystics who warned against taking kabbalah lightly because of the dangers like going insane or ''die in the spirit'' etc. I don't practice Kabbalah but I still remember that part. I think that was something that appeared in my mind following already getting frightened though, but not the cause of it. Perhaps my fantasy getting carried away a bit.

I'll resist my temptation to assume the fear and pulling back thing you mentioned is necessarily due to the sense of fear of letting go into the Unknown. While that is certainly well-known to me and something I could talk about at length, there's something else that might be going on. I just want to get a better feel for what you're describing here.

When you say you feel your brain might stop functioning, would you describe that as a sense of going "blank", like you will simply blink out of existence? The thing to understand is that in meditation you never go blank. You never become unconscious. You never become unaware. Quite the opposite. You become superconscious. Your awareness becomes become crystal clear, because you have removed all the distracting mental noise that pulls our minds here or there. Think of it like washing off the dirt on the windshield you are looking through. You will sense of course what I would describe as doors into deeper awareness, passing from one level to the next, greater and greater presence, subtleties, and clarity, but going blank, someone turning the lights off, is not a way to describe any of that!

If you are experiencing feeling like you're going blank out, that your "brain will stop functioning" as you stated, that sounds more like something called Sinking Mind. That's not a good thing actually, and hence why you would describe it as unpleasant. I've had that happen a couple times in the past, and I know what you mean about it feeling fearful. That's not the same kind of fear as when you let go of the ego and dissolve into God. The latter is a matter of the fear of trusting the Unknown, which is no small thing mind you! But the former is more like the sensation of falling out of bed and disorientation, like any sense of grounding is completely gone.

I don't really know, as you say I pull myself back and therefore I don't know what will happen. About it being unpleasant, I don't think it is the experience itself which is unpleasant but rather the fear that appears following the emergence of it. Then my fantasy set in and yeah.... I don't allow the whole thing to continue so I have a hard time deciding what is happening. But I don't feel like falling asleep if that is what you meant, although getting drowsy sometimes happens but that's not what I am talking about right now.

Mental noise, do you mean thoughts or something else? Because it is common that there is a certain tinnitus-ish kind of sound. By the way, I assume it is sort of normal feeling pressure in your head, nose and so on? It can wander around a bit or spread.

What causes that is a lack of being present in meditation. It's like a momentary drifting out of mediation into 'zoning out' sort of thing, a sense of not knowing where you are and catching yourself. Being grounded in meditation is very important to maintain.

Possibly, I will admit and say I'm a bit unsure about what you mean by being grounded. But I would say there is a bit more awareness regarding certain things.

I might have some suggestions for meditation practice that may help. Can I ask what you do in how you approach your practice? You mentioned it as a type of 'prayer"? Do you meditated while directing your thoughts to an object of your faith and beliefs? I see you identify as Catholic. Are you trying Fr. Thomas Keating's Centering Prayer, or some other approach?

My approach depends when I do it really, although I guess there are some similarities overall. Sometimes I recite a prayer, like the Jesus prayer or hail Mary. I usually recite the prayer while simultaneously focus on my breathing or sensations of different kinds in my body, but often I give up on the words after some time and solely focus on breathing and sensations. At other times I don't use any prayers or words at all and go straight for focus on the breathing. Yesterday specifically was like the later example, with the exception of occasionally saying to myself ''feeling X is not you, X is something you experience.''

Centering prayer is focus on a certain word, correct? I have heard of it but I'm not that familiar with it.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't really know, as you say I pull myself back and therefore I don't know what will happen.
What I was referring to as sinking mind was more the sensation I was going 'blank' that my brain would cease to function. That was not pleasant. I've heard others describe that as well for themselves. I rightly feared that sort of loss.

The other sort of fear I would say is more a sense of like having an entire Ocean ready to flood in on you and overwhelm you should you open the door just a little to it. You know it's wonderful and good, but you fear a loss of control, giving yourself to you and allowing yourself to fall into it. What often happens when you do open that door is such overwhelming Light and Love that you weap. It is a process of letting go of all you carry that weighs on you which you've learned to simply cope with an ignore its constant pressure in your life. That "letting go" is fearful because you've become attached to all that which is part of you, both good and bad. "Who will I be, if I don't have that," is a subconscious thought that holds us back.

On that note, a couple things. There are actually two things that happen in meditation. The first is meeting yourself. The second is meeting God, or the Infinite, or the transcendent, the yet unrealized Goal of your being in yourself. In order to adequately move into the latter, the former is no small thing. If we are subconsciously hanging on to stuff in our deep psyches we pushed out of our conscious awareness, it's precense in our lives is never fully released into the latter. It's not just surrendering what we know consciously. It's bring what is hidden in us to our own conscious awareness, own it, let it become consciously part of our awareness, and then take all of it and "let it go" into release. It is there where true transformation begins to happen. And that's what it's all about.

So you have the fear of letting go, and the fear of what's hiding in the dark in ourselves. People who say they don't experience fear in meditation, I wonder if they've truly opened those doors yet. ;) But the fear of something 'there' that wants to come in but we are holding back from it, that's your work. It's a sign of work for you. In time, you simply recognize it when it comes, and like hearing the sound of the doorbell, you recognize what it means and just open that door you've done many times before, and you're always safe on the other side. There are layers and layers of these doors you pass through, thinking each time you've arrived only to learn there's many more yet ahead.

Mental noise, do you mean thoughts or something else? Because it is common that there is a certain tinnitus-ish kind of sound. By the way, I assume it is sort of normal feeling pressure in your head, nose and so on? It can wander around a bit or spread.
I mean the constant chattering of our thoughts are brains are just running the texts over and over again all day long. This is normal life for people, and one they are completely unaware is happening until they actually stop and look inside and see that looping program buzzing along without a break. That's like the first thing you discover in meditation. :)

Possibly, I will admit and say I'm a bit unsure about what you mean by being grounded. But I would say there is a bit more awareness regarding certain things.
Being grounded is highly important and indispensable in meditation. By being grounded it means that the energies that are raised in your awareness are brought back into your body making you present in the moment in the world. Think of it like your mind being a kite up in the sky. Being grounded is attaching it to a string with it rooted on the earth to keep it from flying away and end up out of control eventually crashing to the ground.

In meditation, when you move beyond your normal moorings you attach yourself to you do become a bit like that kite going up the sky. There are some basic techniques to take that transcended space and bring it down into yourself in grounding. And to be honest, it is actually the grounding part of it which is the most powerful of all of it! Image you mind in heaven, and your feet planted on earth. It's is truly "incarnational" in that sense, where heaven and earth meet in you! I have much to say about this.

My approach depends when I do it really, although I guess there are some similarities overall. Sometimes I recite a prayer, like the Jesus prayer or hail Mary. I usually recite the prayer while simultaneously focus on my breathing or sensations of different kinds in my body, but often I give up on the words after some time and solely focus on breathing and sensations. At other times I don't use any prayers or words at all and go straight for focus on the breathing. Yesterday specifically was like the later example, with the exception of occasionally saying to myself ''feeling X is not you, X is something you experience.''

Centering prayer is focus on a certain word, correct? I have heard of it but I'm not that familiar with it.
Centering prayer, from what I understand of this, is a sort of hybrid meditation practice. The "prayer word" can be mantra-like, which is what reciting the Rosary in reality is. What the prayer word is from my understanding, is that as your mind drifts off, it's a touchstone sort of word to remind yourself to come back into meditation. It's like a type of mental conditioning, like Pavlov's dog salivating when it hears the bell. You say that word, or phrase, and it triggers a response of positioning yourself back in meditation. It's perfectly normal to come in and out of meditation many times during practice. There are other techniques that do the same sort of thing.

One last thing, is that there are two basic types of meditation, which are concentration meditation and insight meditation. I'd recommend you reading this for your awareness. https://integrallife.com/integral-post/stages-meditation
 
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