"Almost Everything the Media Tell You About Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Is Wrong"

Skwim · Aug 23, 2016

"A major new report, published today in the journal The New Atlantis, challenges the leading narratives that the media has pushed regarding sexual orientation and gender identity.

Co-authored by two of the nation’s leading scholars on mental health and sexuality, the 143-page report discusses over 200 peer-reviewed studies in the biological, psychological, and social sciences, painstakingly documenting what scientific research shows and does not show about sexuality and gender.

The major takeaway, as the editor of the journal explains, is that “some of the most frequently heard claims about sexuality and gender are not supported by scientific evidence.”

Here are four of the report’s most important conclusions:

1. The belief that sexual orientation is an innate, biologically fixed human property—that people are ‘born that way’—is not supported by scientific evidence.

2. Likewise, the belief that gender identity is an innate, fixed human property independent of biological sex—so that a person might be a ‘man trapped in a woman’s body’ or ‘a woman trapped in a man’s body’—is not supported by scientific evidence.

3. Only a minority of children who express gender-atypical thoughts or behavior will continue to do so into adolescence or adulthood. There is no evidence that all such children should be encouraged to become transgender, much less subjected to hormone treatments or surgery.

4. Non-heterosexual and transgender people have higher rates of mental health problems (anxiety, depression, suicide), as well as behavioral and social problems (substance abuse, intimate partner violence), than the general population. Discrimination alone does not account for the entire disparity.

The report, “Sexuality and Gender: Findings from the Biological, Psychological, and Social Sciences,” is co-authored by Dr. Lawrence Mayer and Dr. Paul McHugh. Mayer is a scholar-in-residence in the Department of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University and a professor of statistics and biostatistics at Arizona State University."
source

WOW! Don't know if this is going to bode well for GLBTs or not. What do you think?

.

Revoltingest · Aug 23, 2016

Many existing phenomena weren't supported by scientific evidence.....until they later were.

bobhikes · Aug 23, 2016

Skwim said:
"A major new report, published today in the journal The New Atlantis, challenges the leading narratives that the media has pushed regarding sexual orientation and gender identity.

Co-authored by two of the nation’s leading scholars on mental health and sexuality, the 143-page report discusses over 200 peer-reviewed studies in the biological, psychological, and social sciences, painstakingly documenting what scientific research shows and does not show about sexuality and gender.

The major takeaway, as the editor of the journal explains, is that “some of the most frequently heard claims about sexuality and gender are not supported by scientific evidence.”

Here are four of the report’s most important conclusions:

1. The belief that sexual orientation is an innate, biologically fixed human property—that people are ‘born that way’—is not supported by scientific evidence.

2. Likewise, the belief that gender identity is an innate, fixed human property independent of biological sex—so that a person might be a ‘man trapped in a woman’s body’ or ‘a woman trapped in a man’s body’—is not supported by scientific evidence.

3. Only a minority of children who express gender-atypical thoughts or behavior will continue to do so into adolescence or adulthood. There is no evidence that all such children should be encouraged to become transgender, much less subjected to hormone treatments or surgery.

4. Non-heterosexual and transgender people have higher rates of mental health problems (anxiety, depression, suicide), as well as behavioral and social problems (substance abuse, intimate partner violence), than the general population. Discrimination alone does not account for the entire disparity.

The report, “Sexuality and Gender: Findings from the Biological, Psychological, and Social Sciences,” is co-authored by Dr. Lawrence Mayer and Dr. Paul McHugh. Mayer is a scholar-in-residence in the Department of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University and a professor of statistics and biostatistics at Arizona State University."
source
WOW! Don't know if this is going to bode well for GLBTs or not. What do you think?

.

So much of what people say is not supported by science, but 3 gets my attention.

There are these parents that at 5 years old are trying to say that there kids aren't the proper sex an need to start changing to the other sex. Boys and Girls are virtually the same until puberty and giving them hormones, surgery and meds before puberty should be criminal and I am not a scientist. If the Tran-sexual community is supporting this I would fight them vigorously.

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 23, 2016

This is just right-wing bs. McHugh is pretty much to trans people what Paul Cameron was to gay people in the '80s and '90s. He lies about us, misrepresents data and tries to keep us from getting the treatment we need out of a personal agenda and nothing more. He is a notorious bigot with a right-wing religious agenda to push.

"Anti-equality organizations are enthusiastically promoting a new study on sexual orientation and gender, hoping it will be new culture war ammunition.

The study by Dr. Lawrence Mayer and Dr. Paul McHugh appears in “The New Atlantis,” a journal co-published by the right-wing Ethics and Public Policy Center and the Center for the Study of Technology and Science, which shares an address with EPPC. The New Atlantis is not a peer-reviewed journal, and has critiqued peer review, widely considered the gold standard in scientific publishing."

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...omote-new-study-sexual-orientation-and-gender
http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/paul-mchugh.html
https://thinkprogress.org/meet-the-...-to-justify-anti-transgender-hate-fe764009b93
http://transadvocate.com/clinging-t...of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm
https://www.glaad.org/cap/paul-mchugh

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 23, 2016

bobhikes said:
So much of what people say is not supported by science, but 3 gets my attention.

There are these parents that at 5 years old are trying to say that there kids aren't the proper sex an need to start changing to the other sex. Boys and Girls are virtually the same until puberty and giving them hormones, surgery and meds before puberty should be criminal and I am not a scientist. If the Tran-sexual community is supporting this I would fight them vigorously.

No one supports giving kids hormones and surgeries before puberty! That's just dumb. The only thing those parents would be arguing for is the right for their child to live socially as the gender they prefer, such as with clothing, pronouns, their name, use of gender-specific facilities, etc.

When the child hits their teens, they'll be given the choice to go on puberty blockers until they're at least 16 and then they'll be able to start hormone therapy. They can always change their mind before that and are given plenty of time to do so.

bobhikes · Aug 23, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
No one supports giving kids hormones and surgeries before puberty! That's just dumb. The only thing those parents would be arguing for is the right for their child to live socially as the gender they prefer, such as with clothing, pronouns, their name, use of gender-specific facilities, etc.

When the child hits their teens, they'll be given the choice to go on puberty blockers until they're at least 16 and then they'll be able to start hormone therapy. They can always change their mind before that and are given plenty of time to do so.

Which is also wrong. You should not be enforcing gender stereo-types at a young age. Kids should be encouraged to dress, play and look however they want and should be advised in puberty there sexual orientation comes out. Just because you like long hair, pink clothes and love to dance does not make you a girl. Because you like playing in the dirt, rough housing and cars does not make you a boy. Kids should be encouraged to act as they want and if they believe they are a girl or a boy first and not a loved child then the parents need to be questioned firmly.

Why would a 3 year old care about being a boy or girl who has enforced the differences at that age. They certainly do not know all the differences so why would they choose one over the other. Because some adult made one more important than the other.

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 23, 2016

bobhikes said:
Which is also wrong. You should not be enforcing gender stereo-types at a young age. Kids should be encouraged to dress, play and look however they want and should be advised in puberty there sexual orientation comes out. Just because you like long hair, pink clothes and love to dance does not make you a girl. Because you like playing in the dirt, rough housing and cars does not make you a boy. Kids should be encouraged to act as they want and if they believe they are a girl or a boy first and not a loved child then the parents need to be questioned firmly.

Why would a 3 year old care about being a boy or girl who has enforced the differences at that age. They certainly do not know all the differences so why would they choose one over the other. Because some adult made one more important than the other.

Er, the parents are letting them be who they are. They're not telling them "oh, you like to play with dolls so therefore you must be a girl". The kids are going up to their parents and telling them how they want to dress, what they want to be called and how they feel. It's like how Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt's kid, Shiloh (a female), likes to wear masculine clothing and be called John. They didn't decide that for her. That's what she prefers. No one is saying that how you act or dress determines your gender. When I was a kid and had to wear dresses at times (which I hated), that didn't make me into a girl. When I had dolls, that didn't make me into a girl. I like stuffed animals but that doesn't make me a girl. Get it?

My mom let me play with whatever toys I wanted and partake in whatever activities I wanted. I had Barbie dolls, but I preferred my action figures and cars. I preferred to play with my male cousin in the dirt and to hang out with the neighborhood boys. I always viewed myself as a male, but I didn't have the language to express it. So I kept it to myself until my late teens, when I had learned a bit about transsexualism. Then I was able to put a name to it. The kids growing up now are much luckier than I, and those before me, were. There's less of a chance of them having to suffer in silence because they think they're a freak and there's no information readily available for what they're going through.

And shame on you if you wish to uphold an atmosphere where that is the norm.

bobhikes · Aug 23, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
Er, the parents are letting them be who they are. They're not telling them "oh, you like to play with dolls so therefore you must be a girl". The kids are going up to their parents and telling them how they want to dress, what they want to be called and how they feel. It's like how Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt's kid, Shiloh (a female), likes to wear masculine clothing and be called John. They didn't decide that for her. That's what she prefers. No one is saying that how you act or dress determines your gender. When I was a kid and had to wear dresses at times (which I hated), that didn't make me into a girl. When I had dolls, that didn't make me into a girl. I like stuffed animals but that doesn't make me a girl. Get it?

My mom let me play with whatever toys I wanted and partake in whatever activities I wanted. I had Barbie dolls, but I preferred my action figures and cars. I preferred to play with my male cousin in the dirt and to hang out with the neighborhood boys. I always viewed myself as a male, but I didn't have the language to express it. So I kept it to myself until my late teens, when I had learned a bit about transsexualism. Then I was able to put a name to it. The kids growing up now are much luckier than I, and those before me, were. There's less of a chance of them having to suffer in silence because they think they're a freak and there's no information readily available for what they're going through.

And shame on you if you wish to uphold an atmosphere where that is the norm.

A child can only claim they want to be a Girl or Boy if they are indoctrinated into what a Girl or Boy should be. Saying I want to be called Tom, Ann or Shiloh is fine none of the names should be considered gender specific. If they want to wear special clothes all the time it should not be indicated as masculine or feminine it is just clothes. What ever toys they play with you do not indicate you must want to be a girl or a boy because your toys are this.

If your child claims at 3 years old they want to be a girl or a boy you have allowed them to be indoctrinated to societies norms and presented a male/female bias's to them at this early age. You should not consider yourself a proper parent.

Quintessence · Aug 23, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
The kids growing up now are much luckier than I, and those before me, were. There's less of a chance of them having to suffer in silence because they think they're a freak and there's no information readily available for what they're going through.

QFT. Though how much help people receive will depend on how open-minded their parents and surrounding culture is. There is still a very long way to go. Even for some of us who didn't suffer in silence as it were will not be listened to when they say "I do not want to become a woman" or "I do not want to become a man." They may get ignored. Get told "that's just part of growing up" or "that's just the way it is" or "you need to just accept that you will become this."

*twitches*

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 23, 2016

bobhikes said:
A child can only claim they want to be a Girl or Boy if they are indoctrinated into what a Girl or Boy should be. Saying I want to be called Tom, Ann or Shiloh is fine none of the names should be considered gender specific. If they want to wear special clothes all the time it should not be indicated as masculine or feminine it is just clothes. What ever toys they play with you do not indicate you must want to be a girl or a boy because your toys are this.

If your child claims at 3 years old they want to be a girl or a boy you have allowed them to be indoctrinated to societies norms and presented a male/female bias's to them at this early age. You should not consider yourself a proper parent.

You can't be "indoctrinated" into a gender. We're not born blank slates. Most people know what their gender identity is by an early age. Now, does a girl who likes to roughhouse, play with trucks and toy guns and wear jeans necessarily want to be a boy? Of course not! And no one is saying that.

Skwim · Aug 23, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
This is just right-wing bs. McHugh is pretty much to trans people what Paul Cameron was to gay people in the '80s and '90s. He lies about us, misrepresents data and tries to keep us from getting the treatment we need out of a personal agenda and nothing more. He is a notorious bigot with a right-wing religious agenda to push.

"Anti-equality organizations are enthusiastically promoting a new study on sexual orientation and gender, hoping it will be new culture war ammunition.

The study by Dr. Lawrence Mayer and Dr. Paul McHugh appears in “The New Atlantis,” a journal co-published by the right-wing Ethics and Public Policy Center and the Center for the Study of Technology and Science, which shares an address with EPPC. The New Atlantis is not a peer-reviewed journal, and has critiqued peer review, widely considered the gold standard in scientific publishing."

Would you say then that each of the four conclusions in the OP is wrong?

.

bobhikes · Aug 24, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
You can't be "indoctrinated" into a gender. We're not born blank slates. Most people know what their gender identity is by an early age. Now, does a girl who likes to roughhouse, play with trucks and toy guns and wear jeans necessarily want to be a boy? Of course not! And no one is saying that.

Saint Frankenstein said:
The kids are going up to their parents and telling them how they want to dress, what they want to be called and how they feel. It's like how Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt's kid, Shiloh (a female), likes to wear masculine clothing and be called John

You said it, Shiloh wants to wear masculine clothes and be called john. Those are your words? Gender identity before puberty is human made. The only difference is how they go the bathroom. What are your perceived gender differences between 3 year old's. There aren't any that I know and yes we do indoctrinate our children into our preferred societal gender roles. Masculine clothes, colors, actions, if you look at a child and determine that they must be gay or another gender at 3 years old you have bought into societies norms and influenced that child.

Describe for me what a 3 year old needs to be allowed to do because they believe they are a different gender that they can't do in there current gender and is not of social making. If you say mutilation I would say that is criminal.

Aštra’el · Aug 24, 2016

I completely agree with this report, as it includes things I have already noticed and believed all along.

ZooGirl02 · Aug 29, 2016

I would have to say that I am glad that finally an accurate report on the issue has been published.

Saint Frankenstein · Sep 3, 2016

bobhikes said:
You said it, Shiloh wants to wear masculine clothes and be called john. Those are your words? Gender identity before puberty is human made. The only difference is how they go the bathroom. What are your perceived gender differences between 3 year old's. There aren't any that I know and yes we do indoctrinate our children into our preferred societal gender roles. Masculine clothes, colors, actions, if you look at a child and determine that they must be gay or another gender at 3 years old you have bought into societies norms and influenced that child.

No, gender identity is neuro-biological. How you choose to express it is influenced by society. But whether you're a boy/man, girl/woman, etc. is largely biologically based. The brain is sexually dimorphic.

Describe for me what a 3 year old needs to be allowed to do because they believe they are a different gender that they can't do in there current gender and is not of social making. If you say mutilation I would say that is criminal.

Say a female-bodied child wants to be called by a male name, male pronouns, use male facilities, join the Boy Scouts, play on boy's sports teams, etc.

ZooGirl02 said:
I would have to say that I am glad that finally an accurate report on the issue has been published.

There have been many of those but this is not one of them.

bobhikes · Sep 3, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
No, gender identity is neuro-biological. How you choose to express it is influenced by society. But whether you're a boy/man, girl/woman, etc. is largely biologically based. The brain is sexually dimorphic.

Say a female-bodied child wants to be called by a male name, male pronouns, use male facilities, join the Boy Scouts, play on boy's sports teams, etc.

Do you have any reliable sources, I would be interested as I study the mind and have no such correlation.

There is also no reason a female bodied child can not be called by a male name, male pronoun, use male facilities, join the Boy scouts play on a boy's sports teams. It is all done in today's world. As to the name and pronoun and non-gender specific facilities that has been around since writing began and probably before.

ZooGirl02 · Sep 3, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
No, gender identity is neuro-biological. How you choose to express it is influenced by society. But whether you're a boy/man, girl/woman, etc. is largely biologically based. The brain is sexually dimorphic.

Say a female-bodied child wants to be called by a male name, male pronouns, use male facilities, join the Boy Scouts, play on boy's sports teams, etc.

There have been many of those but this is not one of them.

I understand that you don't think its an accurate study but I think that it is.

Twilight Hue · Sep 3, 2016

How come things like ethnicity are not regarded in the same manner as sexual prefrences?

From what I gather, there is still to this date nothing conclusive that genetics plays any role in sexual orientation. It's more a sociological/ psychological issue as it stands at present. It's still being studied.

Saint Frankenstein · Sep 4, 2016

bobhikes said:
Do you have any reliable sources, I would be interested as I study the mind and have no such correlation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality#Biological-based_theories
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TScauses.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150213112317.htm
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

There is also no reason a female bodied child can not be called by a male name, male pronoun, use male facilities, join the Boy scouts play on a boy's sports teams. It is all done in today's world. As to the name and pronoun and non-gender specific facilities that has been around since writing began and probably before.

I have no idea what you're trying to say or what your point even is.

ZooGirl02 said:
I understand that you don't think its an accurate study but I think that it is.

Why do you think that?

Nowhere Man said:
How come things like ethnicity are not regarded in the same manner as sexual prefrences?

Because they're not the same things.

From what I gather, there is still to this date nothing conclusive that genetics plays any role in sexual orientation. It's more a sociological/ psychological issue as it stands at present. It's still being studied.

Sexual orientation is a complex thing that's influenced by biology and culture. It's not black and white.

psychoslice · Sep 4, 2016

I take everything the media say's with a pinch of salt, no matter what they say.

"Almost Everything the Media Tell You About Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Is Wrong"

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