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How to search for truth when there are *so many* belief systems
- Thread starter truthseeker1111
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well, one does get what one pays for.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
You are trying to sell not just "truth" but "THE Truth"...
What makes you think, that if I am not buying your free snake oil, that would pay money for someone else's snake oil?
I don't even care man you keep responding and responding go find something else to do I know you don't want it that's fine others will.
Sell me some of your snake oil then let's here it what do you believe? Can't wait to hear it.
truthseeker1111
New Member
Wow
Thank you everyone for your responses.
I feel honored to be in your company.
Everyone responded differently, I guess according to the strings of their soul. With soulfulness, with intellectual acuity, with insight, with love. with passionate zeal for truth, with dispassionate and broad understanding. I truly feel honored, and I bow to the light in everyone here.
All of the above styles resonate with me, but I guess what resonates most with me at this point is the "go with your feeling" kind of approach that some have been saying. I guess it's because I've exercised a lot of intellect up til now, and I feel like I need some balancing out with some in-touchness with my inner depth. But to plumb the depths of reality, I feel like one still does need all the different aspects that we are bringing out here, so everyone please feel free to respond in your own ways.
As for the actual issue at hand, how to approach the question of reality if there are so many "isms" out there, a friend of mine had suggested starting with a simple question - is there a God in the world or not, and taking it from there. This is also along the lines of what some were saying in this forum. And we don't even have to call it "God". But we could say, is there divinity. Well, an initial way that I would approach this question would actually be to evaluate the classic arguments for and against the existence of "God", the creator.
The argument in favor of a creator, that appeals to me most is the argument from design. IE the world is so sophisticated, and runs together in such a well-ordered systematic, fruitful way, that a designer would seem to be the best explanation for this. (In the way that a watch implies a watchmaker). Both the fine-tuning of the natural laws and phenomena of the cosmos on the one hand, and also the sophisticated systems of living bodies, such as humans', imply there having been a designer of all this, and that it did not happen just by chance.
To argue against this, I have heard that evolution and the anthropic principle can be used.
For evolution, I'm guessing I'd have to get into the fossil record to see whether the evidence supports unguided or guided evolution. (ie guided by a higher power aka God, or unguided - just pure Darwinian mutation and natural selection).
I've started looking into the anthropic principle, which may also need the proposition of a multiverse to completely counter the argument from design (eg www.youtube.com/watch?v=CexcmggApr4)).
But it's not compelling yet. Trying now to look more into this.
I would like to see the best that evolution and the anthropic principle can do against the argument from design.
Feel free to correct me on any mistakes or presumptions I've made, to talk about the fossil record and unguided evolution, the anthropic principle, the multiverse, to provide useful links for any of the above, or to respond in any other way.
Thank you very much again.
Thank you everyone for your responses.
I feel honored to be in your company.
Everyone responded differently, I guess according to the strings of their soul. With soulfulness, with intellectual acuity, with insight, with love. with passionate zeal for truth, with dispassionate and broad understanding. I truly feel honored, and I bow to the light in everyone here.
All of the above styles resonate with me, but I guess what resonates most with me at this point is the "go with your feeling" kind of approach that some have been saying. I guess it's because I've exercised a lot of intellect up til now, and I feel like I need some balancing out with some in-touchness with my inner depth. But to plumb the depths of reality, I feel like one still does need all the different aspects that we are bringing out here, so everyone please feel free to respond in your own ways.
As for the actual issue at hand, how to approach the question of reality if there are so many "isms" out there, a friend of mine had suggested starting with a simple question - is there a God in the world or not, and taking it from there. This is also along the lines of what some were saying in this forum. And we don't even have to call it "God". But we could say, is there divinity. Well, an initial way that I would approach this question would actually be to evaluate the classic arguments for and against the existence of "God", the creator.
The argument in favor of a creator, that appeals to me most is the argument from design. IE the world is so sophisticated, and runs together in such a well-ordered systematic, fruitful way, that a designer would seem to be the best explanation for this. (In the way that a watch implies a watchmaker). Both the fine-tuning of the natural laws and phenomena of the cosmos on the one hand, and also the sophisticated systems of living bodies, such as humans', imply there having been a designer of all this, and that it did not happen just by chance.
To argue against this, I have heard that evolution and the anthropic principle can be used.
For evolution, I'm guessing I'd have to get into the fossil record to see whether the evidence supports unguided or guided evolution. (ie guided by a higher power aka God, or unguided - just pure Darwinian mutation and natural selection).
I've started looking into the anthropic principle, which may also need the proposition of a multiverse to completely counter the argument from design (eg www.youtube.com/watch?v=CexcmggApr4)).
But it's not compelling yet. Trying now to look more into this.
I would like to see the best that evolution and the anthropic principle can do against the argument from design.
Feel free to correct me on any mistakes or presumptions I've made, to talk about the fossil record and unguided evolution, the anthropic principle, the multiverse, to provide useful links for any of the above, or to respond in any other way.
Thank you very much again.
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
I don't question that you are well intentioned, although your thin skin when questioned is a bit off putting. The truth is, however, that you don't have the knowledge, the knowledge that informs wisdom, to declare any one translation to be more --- or less -- accurate than another translation.
Make the time, make the effort to learn biblical Hebrew. Learning more, and learning accurate, information about Judaism wouldn't hurt either.
I'm not trying to sell you anything. Judaism has not proselytized since the Romans forbade it on penalty of death. All I am seeking is for you to decide to take the necessary steps to obtain the knowledge needed to arrive at informed positions, whatever those ultimate positions may be.
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You are correct I personally don't. But I do listen to the 20 translaters go over and over it and am studding it as I can. My father in law is Greek and reads and writes 5-7 languages one of them being Hebrew so sometimes I get his input as well and compare it to what the translaters say.
All that I am coming to understand is that our English translations have some serious issues
And if those issues cause us to not understand what YHWH said its worth a deeper look.
I have friends that are messianic and some that are in Judaism and I personally feel that Paul needs some serious looking into for he is teaching apposed to YHWH. In my opinion.
2 Corinthians 12:7
Posses a big problem for me because of King Saul
These two men share way to much in common for me. I believe King Saul to be a warning about Paul.
So that being the case I am not and cannot claim to be a Christian anymore. Paul teaches the way to Christian salvation and I believe that it is apposed to what YHWH taught.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Get on your knees and humbly pray and ask God to show you the way. Stay away from any and every religion or organization that claims that God personally chose them or that, if you don't belong to their religion you have no hope of salvation. They are cults and you want no part of them.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
You don't need religions or their dogma to be SPIRITUAL.
The study of religion, mythology, and philosophy, is very interesting. Just be Spiritual and take your time going through the material. You do not have to chose any of them. Just learn all that you can.
*
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
That's true, Christianity "doesn't" claim that. I've studied with many different religions, and never heard of it until the JW's. There probably are a "few" other cults that do, but all the religions I've studied say that without Jesus, there is no salvation. Cults like the JW's say, that there is no salvation outside of their religion.
How to search for truth when there are *so many* belief systems.
It states in the Bible that God does not lie, He has given us a book of Truth. The Bible has all the information you need to
make it successfully through this life and prepare you for the life to come. He will even send you a helper to make sure you stay on the
right path, all you have to do is follow Jesus, He is the only way.
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
ronandcarol
It states in the Bible that God does not lie, He has given us a book of Truth. The Bible has all the information you need to
make it successfully through this life and prepare you for the life to come. He will even send you a helper to make sure you stay on the
right path, all you have to do is follow Jesus, He is the only way.
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
ronandcarol
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Jesus - Christian salvation = same thing.
Most Christians claim their religion is the only true one and if you don't belong - look out.
Most also claim the Tanakh came directly from God, - and they, the Christians, are the ones God gave it over to, as an inheritance.
*
arthra
Baha'i
In my view it's very important to approach religious truths as an independent seeker... Don't just take someone's opinion and go with that... Investigate for yourself!
Read/study the scriptures of various religions and appreciate their languages..
Get a sense of what the historical context was when/where these religions began.
Last... attend some inter-faith gatherings in your community and get a sense of how people representing various faiths behave.
I've been studying religions a good portion of my youth and adult life and I've found there are general truths supported by all the major religions in the past six thousand years and this means for me that they all have a common Divine Source.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
As we all know, beliefs are not always true. I also agree with you that there is some truth in all religions. Perhaps the best way to find the Real Truth is to Discover it yourself.
As we look around our surroundings, we find a universe that adds up pretty well. Could not one assume everything adds up just as well? The best example of the Real Truth then would surround us all. After all that is exactly what is. Talking and beliefs can not change that.
If one can tell more about a person through their actions, would not that be a way to discover the Real Truth about God? The causal nature of this universe supplies a view of all actions.
Can it be as easy as just look around us? Perhaps our limited knowledge and intellect restricts our view a bit. On the other hand, if one comes to understand why a world would run in this way, would not that bring Real insight into God? Who knows,in solving the mysteries to all the little pieces of the puzzle, one might realize that is exactly how you would run such a place.
Just like the 4 year old always asking Why?Why?Why? perhaps there are a million questions and answers to figure out. Why have so many people come to simply accept rather than to endlessly question? Could those 4 year old children be smarter than all of us?
Just like mankind building on attained knowledge, the more pieces understood will have to bring more insight into it's creator. Hey, science might know more about God than anyone.
Still I find it funny how everyone goes looking for God through someone else's view of God. When people want to discover God, why do they just go out and pick a religion? Why is the question always Who to follow? Maybe discovery takes too much work. Maybe people feel obligated so picking the holy book the people around you uses is good enough. Can one who seeks the entire real truth only depend on others to supply the answers or is venturing into undiscovered country needed so that it will all add up completely??
As others have said, it is up to each of us to decide. The decisions we make will say a lot about us, how badly we want truth, how badly we want to discover God, how much does the discovery of truth means to us, how good we are at analyzing and studying, and let's not forget the Big one, whether one accepts the truth that one does not expect or agree with. Do people want God as they want rather than what is?
One thing I have come to realize. The human factor has a whole lot of variables and diversity. That makes the entire picture a bit more complicated. Perhaps a very simple picture would not be as Beautiful.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
Hello,
I was in your quandry a few years ago, and it resulted in my investigation of countless religious/belief/faith/philosophical systems which lasted a number of years.
My ultimate conclusion was to discard any system which was based on blind faith in alleged events which allegedly happened in the unknowable, unverifiable past. This led me to eliminate practically every major religious faith-systems out there. I could not verify for myself that men named Abraham or Moses actually did the things attributed to those names in the Torah. I could not verify for myself similarly about Jesus in the Gospels, or Paul in the New Testament. I could not verify for myself the actions of Zeus in Greek myths, nor of Thor in the Norse sagas. I could not verify for myself the things regarding Zoroaster of the Gathas, nor of Krishna and the Gita. I do not know of Baha'u'llah nor of the Bab of the Bahai's for myself. Likewise I could not verify for myself the adventures of Mickey in Walt's adventures. Hopefully you get the picture.
What did that leave me? Only things which I could verify for myself. I took the advice (allegedly) left by the Buddha in the Kalama sutta: "when you yourselves know". Did that mean that the existence of the Buddha himself was suspect? Yes. The beauty of early Buddhism is this: even if the person called the "historical Buddha" didn't really exist, it didn't really matter in the end. What matters are the words he (allegedly) left for us which we have today, words we can undertake to verify for ourselves.
I can verify for myself that "suffering" exists. I can verify for myself that the Eightfold Path helps me to progressively lessen my sufferings. I can verify for myself that jhanic meditation works as described. Etc. There is nothing to "believe in by blind faith"; there were things instead to "believe in because I personally know".
Buddha allegedly described his teachings in this fashion: "The Dhamma [the teachings of the Buddha] is well-expounded by the Blessed One, to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the wise for themselves." On the other hand, blind-faith systems cannot be "seen here & now", are not "timeless", cannot be "verified", are not "pertinent", nor can they be "realized by the wise for ourselves". They are, instead, alleged "revelations" limited to certain periods in history, messages given to limited people groups, and/or secretly whispered by a "god" to selected "anointed" prophetic figures - none of which we can verify ourselves.
On the other hand, the beauty of the Dhamma is open to every single individual, throughout space and time. Every one of us can come into contact with the Ultimate directly, here and now. We can be equal in achieving what the Buddha himself achieved. No intermediaries needed or wanted.
(You might be wondering at this point, where does that leave "God"? Nowhere, IMO. Why do people seek after a god? The root cause, IMO - because of suffering.)
Those are some major reasons why I chose early Buddhism. Hopefully this helps you along your Path.
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williamsanthu
New Member
To know the truth you should check hinduism. Only sanathan dharma is complete and helpful.It helped to know the truth about god people and human life and i am now happy
soma
John Kuykendall
Ever since the existence of life we have been seeking peace, freedom and happiness in things, events, superstitions, religion, and science; accordingly, the greatest quest is to embrace happiness, which is not a journey to the Supreme Being, but a journey with a spiritual being. Whatever we have done, experienced or what others have put us through, nothing can stop us because the movement to be happy starts within our self. We are all on our own unique path to contentment and are guided by our own inner voice, but the universe is more powerful than we are so we can use it to find happiness in ourselves. We are all seeking fulfillment and are on different roads to find it; therefore, if someone is on a different path than we are, it does not mean that they are lost or wrong in anyway. Happiness is an inside job that does not depend on external circumstances, seeking it in accomplishments, things or relationships is misery because happiness is not one single event, but a way of life that is always spiraling upward in eternity. Our life becomes easier when we learn to let go of the things, memories and thoughts that make us sad as we take the risk to be completely free beyond imperfections, knowing that trying to make everything perfect does not bring happiness. We do not have to be in a place that is quiet and trouble free for spiritual practice because even working in a noisy environment with many problems we can still be peaceful, happy and free. Happiness is not a key in another person’s pocket, but a state of being, a way of living that is not attained with hard work, but something that is experienced with peace and love. The first step towards happiness is learning about our self and how our negative thoughts end up in destructive behaviors and emotions while positive thoughts are helpful, but there is not enough time to stress about a world of nonsense, let your wisdom do the talking. Being happy is always popular, but you can’t make yourself happy because it is just being happy, being yourself, being human. We are human beings; as a result, we don’t find happiness, but make it by learning to just be, to let, accept things as they are and not how we think things should be, unattached, free in our being beyond the mind relaxing in our soul. John Kuykendall's author page