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Christmas as a Hellenic Polytheistic Follower

Thaeunius

New Member
My family celebrates Christmas, and I recently converted to HP. I still want to do the "gift giving and gift receiving" but not with all the Christianity stuff. Any one know how I can do that? (My mom goes to church for the Christmas play about Jesus and stuff) I need ways to 1, tell my mom that I don't want to go to church so I don't disrespect my religion and the gods and goddesses. And 2, how can I still celebrate the holiday without all the Christianity stuff (I'm the only one in my entire family -grandparents and cousins included- who isn't Christian). Thanks!
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
If you're not ready to tell your mom that you don't want to go because you are not Christian, then I would simply go and be as personally involved/invested as you feel like being along the way.

I doubt it would be repetitively going on about how pagan traditions and Gods are wrong or evil, which is about the only way it would be disrespectful...in my opinion.

I would say have a polytheistic mindset and don't be afraid that brushing up against other religious traditions is sinful. This is more of an attitude people bring in with them as baggage from exclusivist traditions.

I always celebrate Christmas as Christmas and Yule both. Not letting the Christian aspects bug me or rubbing all the pagan aspects in the face of people. Have to decide if some perceived guilt or insult is worth it to you.
 

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
Why would the gods be offended? It was always the practice to honor the "local gods" when on the road; and it seems to me that honoring your own family's gods is all the more important. Any Greek would see it as not just a family but a civic duty to maintain that order. Your own personal worship is yours to keep, and you shouldn't let the Christmas season detract from that; honor your own deities and give them precedence. But that doesn't mean you have to shun someone else's liturgia, especially not that of your own kin. The Gods won't feel disrespected for having "shared" you, and you shouldn't feel worried.

As for Christmas itself, it is a repackaging of the Roman festival of Saturnalia - the equivalent in the Hellenic world was a festival called Kronia, which was held in midsummer rather than December. There were winter festivals in the Greek religious calendar though! In much of mainland Greece, this time of year was dedicated to Poseidon, and there are many observances that fall around Christmastime; Eleusis celebrated a festival called Haloea, which is like Christmas but a little raunchier, dedicated to Demeter and Dionysus and culminating with all night bonfires and phallic-shaped cakes.

Here is a nice story that is set during solstice-time (the kingfisher nests from midmonth to the solstice, the origin of the term "Halcyon Days" and the time of year when this story was usually retold):

https://halcyontheatre.org/full-story-alcyone-and-ceyx
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I would say have a polytheistic mindset and don't be afraid that brushing up against other religious traditions is sinful. This is more of an attitude people bring in with them as baggage from exclusivist traditions.

That does seem to be the case, though there's another element in play here. It is typical for recent converts (if that's the appropriate word to use) to want to distance themselves from former paths to affirm their new one. That takes many forms, ranging from the sad phenomena of Christian-bashing we sometimes see within the community to recognizing the value of all religious traditions and using those experiences as learning opportunities.

Often, doing things that gently challenge us are what help us to mature the most. When you find yourself disagreeing with something, take that as a prompt to examine why with some good think-work and introspection. Understand and appreciate the many ways in which people construct meaning in their lives - listen to the stories they tell and let them inspire you. Inspiration can come from anywhere. From things we love, and the things we hate.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
That does seem to be the case, though there's another element in play here. It is typical for recent converts (if that's the appropriate word to use) to want to distance themselves from former paths to affirm their new one. That takes many forms, ranging from the sad phenomena of Christian-bashing we sometimes see within the community to recognizing the value of all religious traditions and using those experiences as learning opportunities.

Often, doing things that gently challenge us are what help us to mature the most. When you find yourself disagreeing with something, take that as a prompt to examine why with some good think-work and introspection. Understand and appreciate the many ways in which people construct meaning in their lives - listen to the stories they tell and let them inspire you. Inspiration can come from anywhere. From things we love, and the things we hate.

My first couple years realizing myself a young Heathen fella definitely had extra anguish and rebellion to them :) We can miss out on much of the holiday joy and bonding, get less out of our relationships in general...for no good reason.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
I need ways to 1, tell my mom that I don't want to go to church so I don't disrespect my religion and the gods and goddesses.
I don't know what sort of Christian your mother is, but I doubt if even the most rabidly evangelical preacher will use his Christmas sermon to insult paganism! And think of public occasions, when politicians attend religious services whether they believe or not.

And 2, how can I still celebrate the holiday without all the Christianity stuff (I'm the only one in my entire family -grandparents and cousins included- who isn't Christian). Thanks!
Just do the celebrating and ignore the religion. When I was a boy in a neighbourhood with quite a few Jews, a delicate point of etiquette was whether you could send them Christmas cards: in most cases you could. One of her friends said of a neighbour of ours "Henny celebrates everybody's feasts and nobody's fasts" - "sensible woman", my mother said!
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
In the Indo-European polytheist traditions, hospitality and honorable behavior towards one's family are sacred values. Rejecting other religions is not. Go spend Christmas with your family!

Eleusis celebrated a festival called Haloea, which is like Christmas but a little raunchier, dedicated to Demeter and Dionysus and culminating with all night bonfires and phallic-shaped cakes.

That sounds like my kind of deal!
 

Cassandra

Active Member
My family celebrates Christmas, and I recently converted to HP. I still want to do the "gift giving and gift receiving" but not with all the Christianity stuff. Any one know how I can do that? (My mom goes to church for the Christmas play about Jesus and stuff) I need ways to 1, tell my mom that I don't want to go to church so I don't disrespect my religion and the gods and goddesses. And 2, how can I still celebrate the holiday without all the Christianity stuff (I'm the only one in my entire family -grandparents and cousins included- who isn't Christian). Thanks!

My personal opinion. Christianity is not true religion but a cult doctrine created by the kings and priests that replaces spirituality. It is a make-belief people are taught to hold on to by hope and fear. Because they are made to believe that (indoctrinated), they are fanatical in holding on to their doctrine, and easily see someone thinking differently as someone they must either save, or who is a danger, or even an enemy. That is part of the doctrine itself. Or as their mangod frames it: those that are not with us, are against us.

That is why particularly Christianity is very hostile to other religions, and that hostility easily goes over to their adherents. That is the nature of this beast. And it demands some diplomacy not to become victimized. You do not want to become ostracised. Knowing the Christian weakness, rule number one is to never discuss religion with Christians, especially not family. It was Christianity that turned it into a society matter, and even created church police (inquisition, elders) to check on people following the doctrine. Luckily today we live in a society where religion again is considered a personal matter, as it always was for Pagans. Out motto is live and let live. Pagans have always had very individual ideas on the cosmos and afterlife.

Your reflex to talk about it with your mom is rather Christian. Christians are taught they need to express their beliefs to others, that way they become billboards for Christianity. Just like they were taught to tell their private thoughts, doubts, offences during confession so they could be controlled. The doctrine is part of a control system. With Christians you are not dealing with people with individual ideas, but with people part of community sharing a doctrine. You talk to you mom, and you mom goes to the pastor to ask what she should do, etc. This can have serious consequences as some Christians are not very tolerant. You can become expelled by the whole community. Even worse things happened to children who do not want to comply. The love of Jesus is not of the tolerant compassionate kind: Or as he says:

L u k e 1 4
26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren,
and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot
be my disciple.

You also have to think of your mother. If she is brainwashed in Christianity she will believe her son is going to hell and that idea can cause real suffering for parents. We know it is nonsense but that does not diminish the harm you are doing to her by telling you are a pagan and do not want to celebrate Christmas. Pagan Gods do not demand loyalty or be defended. That is a dumb Abrahamistic idea. Pagans never fought wars for their Gods, they worship them for mutual benefit and preserve harmony. They are not servants of Gods they need to defend publicly. Not harming others though is an important value.

As to question 2: For Pagans Christmas is just a beautiful Pagan festivity they can enjoy without reservation. That Christians impose their doctrine on it does not bother them. The spirit of the festivity has remained the same throughout the centuries. We should not abolish Pagan festivities like Christmas and Eastern based on natural events.

Besides for many ordinary Christians Christmas is no longer about the birth of Jesus either, but simply a feast of family reunion and wishing well. You can go to any church, engage in their rituals, no problem at all. Why, because we do not have a doctrine forbidding things. All the time you can surround it with your own thoughts. That way you respect their sensitivities which is always a good idea to avoid conflict. As long as you do not have to do anything that really offends your personal principles, you engage in them. All the Christian symbolism you can ignore. Besides most of it is pagan anyway.

In Rome the Christmas replaced the Saturnalia. During the Saturnalia there would be a role reversal and masters and slaves would eat together and the masters would serve the slaves and fulfil their wishes. The Christmas tree is typically a later Pagan addition by protestants in the Northern countries. (a few generations ago Catholics did not have a Christmas tree, only a stable). It comes from the old Pagan custom to gather round old trees considered sacred. Joining around the Christmas tree, we can not get more Pagan than that.
 
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The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
My family celebrates Christmas, and I recently converted to HP. I still want to do the "gift giving and gift receiving" but not with all the Christianity stuff. Any one know how I can do that? (My mom goes to church for the Christmas play about Jesus and stuff) I need ways to 1, tell my mom that I don't want to go to church so I don't disrespect my religion and the gods and goddesses. And 2, how can I still celebrate the holiday without all the Christianity stuff (I'm the only one in my entire family -grandparents and cousins included- who isn't Christian). Thanks!

I'm sceptical as to whether the gods would care if you went to church or not. I'm very sceptical as to whether they'd see it as a slap in the face or anything like that.

If you want to mark the festival without the Christian stuff then you could use the opportunity to hold a private ritual honouring the renewed strength/rebirth of Helios or Apollo (depending on who you view as the god of the Sun (if any)). The 25th December was most likely chosen because it fell close to the festivals of a number of Pagan traditions. Heathen Danes & Saxons honoured Yule round about this time, and the Cult of Sol Invictus in Roman territory would have held rituals hailing the rebirth of the Sun round about this time of year too.
 
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