Baha'i views on possessing firearms...

Generally Baha'is advocate reducing firearms ... Some uses might be permitted but I believe there would be restrictions and controls greater than the present at least in the U.S.

Here are some citations...

"Gracious God! This people need no weapons of destruction, inasmuch as they have girded themselves to reconstruct the world. Their hosts are the hosts of goodly deeds, and their arms the arms of upright conduct…"

– Baha’u’llah and the New Era, p. 170.

"The Oppressed One is this day a prisoner; His allies are the hosts of good deeds and virtues; not ranks, and hosts, and guns, and cannons.*

Travelers Narrative

"We must exercise the functions of such a holy power in the path of love and not expend it upon the inventions of Krupp guns, Mauser rifles and Maxim's rapid-firing cannons. "

-Divine Philosophy

"We have, however, advised the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States that under the present circumstances in that country it is preferable that Bahá’ís do not buy nor own arms for their protection or the protection of their families."

(Universal House of Justice, Messages from the Universal House of Justice: 1963-1986, p. 148)

I'm attaching a recent article by a Baha'i on some of the issues raised here:

http://bahaiteachings.org/right-to-...il&utm_term=0_22fe645b0d-fbbcda83a3-114009721

I agree with where the Baha'i are coming from on this in general, but let me add that I'm somewhat selective on the type of guns and whom may be legally allowed to possess them. For example, handguns are the most dangerous in general since they are so easy to conceal, so I have long felt that their possession should be very limited to mainly law enforcement officers, military personnel, and a relatively small group of others that may be on a must-need basis because of unusual circumstances.

Also, I don't believe we should allow assault-style weapons and large clips for civilian possession. I do believe that people, if they so desire, can buy and own long guns as long as all of them are registered and that mere possession of an illegal gun would get on some rather severe penalties. I don't know if it's still the law in the U.K., but it at least used to be that mere possession of an illegal gun alone could get one up to 10 years in prison, although usually the sentences were lighter.

Since I can pretty much anticipate the reaction from some (not you), this may be my last post on this thread because I have no desire to argue this.

I feel it should never be illegal for one who wishes to defend themselves or others. Self-defense is natural. I hope there will be a day we won't have to have guns, but that's not likely to happen soon. As the rapper Ice T once said "I'll give up my gun when everyone else does" which means it won't likely happen soon. Bad guys will get guns anyway, you may as well not have gun control and let decent citizens have them as well.

Living in a perfect world, I'd agree that firearms would not be needed, however, we are a far cry off from a perfect world. The framers of our Constitution would be shocked at the violence in our society today, but this isn't a gun problem, this is a people problem. Disarming the American public is an impossible task, there are just to many of them. Most firearm owners are peaceful law abiding citizens and will only use their firearms under dire conditions. I'd ask how much do you value your liberties, are you will to sacrifice them for your security. Thomas Jefferson remarked "I rather live in a dangerous society than live as a peaceful slave." Stalin promised a fair and just rule, after disarming the population 50 million Russians were killed, Mao promised a society of fairness and just rights for all, after disarming the population 45 million Chinese were killed, the list goes on. The 2nd amendment was put into the Bill of Rights to protect the people from a tyrannical government should it arise. Baha'u'allah and Abdul'Baha borth suffered from the acts of a tyrannical government, I would most likely say that Abdul' Baha enjoyed a peaceful stay here in the United States when he arrived in 1912.

Terryl,

"Disarming the American people" may seem to be an impossible task but it is nonetheless a worthwhile goal and in some States it is more successful than others.

and thank you for your post!

Terryj said:

Baha'u'allah and Abdul'Baha borth suffered from the acts of a tyrannical government, I would most likely say that Abdul' Baha enjoyed a peaceful stay here in the United States when he arrived in 1912.

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Yes I believe you are generally correct... You'll note the quotes above:

Gracious God! This people need no weapons of destruction, inasmuch as they have girded themselves to reconstruct the world. Their hosts are the hosts of goodly deeds, and their arms the arms of upright conduct…"

– Baha’u’llah and the New Era, p. 170.

"The Oppressed One is this day a prisoner; His allies are the hosts of good deeds and virtues; not ranks, and hosts, and guns, and cannons.*

Travelers Narrative

"We must exercise the functions of such a holy power in the path of love and not expend it upon the inventions of Krupp guns, Mauser rifles and Maxim's rapid-firing cannons. "

-Divine Philosophy

Baha'u'llah while a prisoner of the Ottoman Empire in Akka addressed some of the rulers in Europe such as Kaiser Wilhelm, Queen Victoria, Napoleon III urging them to establish a representive world parliament and an international court of arbitration to resolve conflicts.

Theweirdtophat said:

I feel it should never be illegal for one who wishes to defend themselves or others. Self-defense is natural. I hope there will be a day we won't have to have guns, but that's not likely to happen soon. As the rapper Ice T once said "I'll give up my gun when everyone else does" which means it won't likely happen soon. Bad guys will get guns anyway, you may as well not have gun control and let decent citizens have them as well.

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Baha'is are not total pacifists and do recognize people have a right to defend themselves:

A hitherto untranslated Tablet from 'Abdu'l-Bahá, however, points out that in the case of attack by robbers and highwaymen, a Bahá'í should not surrender himself, but should try, as far as circumstances permit, to defend himself, and later on lodge a complaint with the government authorities. In a letter written on behalf of the Guardian, he also indicates that in an emergency when there is no legal force at hand to appeal to, a Bahá'í is justified in defending his life. In another letter the Guardian has further pointed out that the assault of an irresponsible assailant upon a Bahá'í should be resisted by the Bahá'í, who would be justified, under such circumstances, in protecting his life.

~ The Universal House of Justice, Messages 1963 to 1986, p. 148

Metis,

Thanks for your post above!

arthra said:

Baha'is are not total pacifists and do recognize people have a right to defend themselves:

A hitherto untranslated Tablet from 'Abdu'l-Bahá, however, points out that in the case of attack by robbers and highwaymen, a Bahá'í should not surrender himself, but should try, as far as circumstances permit, to defend himself, and later on lodge a complaint with the government authorities. In a letter written on behalf of the Guardian, he also indicates that in an emergency when there is no legal force at hand to appeal to, a Bahá'í is justified in defending his life. In another letter the Guardian has further pointed out that the assault of an irresponsible assailant upon a Bahá'í should be resisted by the Bahá'í, who would be justified, under such circumstances, in protecting his life.

~ The Universal House of Justice, Messages 1963 to 1986, p. 148

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I understand but as far as I know Baha'i try to follow the law, which is good and you should try and follow the law unless of course there are laws that go against your 2nd amendments rights saying you can't have guns. It isn't illegal to have self defense but it will be more difficult to defend yourself against crooks and corrupt governments if you don't have a guns. Really, even if everything was peaceful on the planet and no one harmed each other, we haven't experienced total peace yet. Because what if some barbaric alien race invaded the Earth? It would be more difficult to defend yourself without such weapons.

Theweirdtophat said:

you should try and follow the law unless of course there are laws that go against your 2nd amendments rights saying you can't have guns.

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Thanks for your post! Basically for Baha'is as you note above it is "preferable" that Bahá’ís do not buy nor own arms.....

arthra said:

Thanks for your post! Basically for Baha'is as you note above it is "preferable" that Bahá’ís do not buy nor own arms.....

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Well I understand if they prefer to as it doesn't say it's forbidden, just that they prefer not to. The Baha'i as you said aren't total pacifists. I don't think any religious group is totally pacifist except maybe orthodox Jains. I hear that even some Jains, as non-violent as they are, can still practice self defense unless they are orthodox or a monk or nun.

I just came across a good source for information on the Faith called "Bahai9.com" and thought I'd share a section of what it has on carrying a weapon..

"It hath been forbidden you to carry arms unless essential, and permitted you to attire yourselves in silk."

(Bahá'u'lláh, Kitáb-i-Aqdas, par. 159)

"Bahá'u'lláh confirms an injunction contained in the Bayán which makes it unlawful to carry arms, unless it is necessary to do so. With regard to circumstances under which the bearing of arms might be "essential" for an individual, 'Abdu'l-Bahá gives permission to a believer for self-protection in a dangerous environment. Shoghi Effendi in a letter written on his behalf has also indicated that, in an emergency, when there is no legal force at hand to appeal to, a Bahá'í is justified in defending his life.

(Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Note no. 173)

"Of course the above principles apply also in cases when a Bahá'í finds himself involved in situations of civil disorder. We have, however, advised the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States that under the present circumstances in that country it is preferable that Bahá'ís do not buy nor own arms for their protection or the protection of their families."

(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of Canada, May 26, 1969: Messages from the Universal House of Justice, 1968-1973, p. 26, in Lights of Guidance, no. 399)

Additional material came be found at

http://bahai9.com/wiki/Carrying_weapons