Free Will & the Afterlife in Christianity and Islam

gsa said:

So you have free will in heaven to reject God?

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This is a very good question and it warrants a thoughtful answer. It seems that you have already made a decision to dislike a beleif in God. So, I am not sure you will want to hear this. However, it is a really great question! This is what I beleive so far in my own thoughts. We do have free will. We can choose to do good and bad things (some things are in a kinda grey area/depend on people's moral stance). This freedom allows us to learn the consequences of our own, and other people's actions. Someone hits me and I feel pain. I hit someone else and I loose friends for a time. (Just simple examples). As we grow, our choice patterns and set beleifs will develop over time. Some people will learn to act peacefully, some people will choose to ignore suffering and use violence for their own purposes. (There are many other examples between these two I chose. Please don't judge my point of view by the simplicity of my examples.)

Our own history, teaches us so much about the triumphs of working together and tragedies of selfishness. People banding together to bring the end of slavery in various countries around the world or giving much of their lives to starting orphanages and other charaties which last for decades by the power of volenteers and donations . People working in private groups to extort others to gain power and influence. Mafia, drug lords, currupt governments and heartless corperate business groups.

So, if we live long enough on this earth we may develop into communilative, peaceful, loving and free beings. We may also develop into semi-helpful, self-soficient members of society. Perhaps we may choose completely selfish, back-scratching all consuming tyrants. (Many varieties ).

It is important to add, at this point, that nobody is necessarily beyond changing course at any given time. The man who wrote the song, Amazing Grace, was a former slave trader who shipped human beings in boats from Africa to the Americas. Many of these captives died in horrible suffering at sea, or if they made it were doomed to a life of slavery. (It's an extreme example of change, and one that raises a whole bunch of issues around God's judgement and our perspectives of what's fair)

Back to the point that I feel is important from my experience so far.

We can learn to be good and free at the same time. Perfect goodness and freedom may not come in this life, but the taste of it can be known. Some may beleive it taste really good as I do.

Will I really want to worship God for eternity? Is that what's in store? What is worship? Singing songs? Gratitude of the heart? Spoken praise? Walking with thankfulness? It's an interesting question. There are many mysteries that I personally still ponder!

What I know is that if we have freedom in heaven (as is what I expect!), then we will live a life of chosen unity with God and all others. We will freely love! I may bake cookies or cake I may pick you a flower or plant you a garden. We may play tennis with worshipful hearts or a game of Frisbee. We may fly through the universe to Andromeda or beyond... we will choose many things in constant love and harmony. (These are my imaginary examples The point is free love eternal.

gsa said:

Also are you denying that there is a hell?

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As a Christian, I don't beleive scripture supports the hollywood idea of a hell. The idea of hell is a pagan idea as far as I know. The biblical idea seems to be "un-making of the eternal part of a being". The eternal does not simply equate time, as in forever.


I am very open to hearing other thoughts and have enjoyed some respectful dialogs here at religious forums. All the best to everybody!

Please forgive spelling mistaakes lol . And Grammer issues! I don't feel like editing this

gsa said:

Free will is often cited as the justification for reward and punishment in these twin Abrahamic religions. But how does this work?

Supposedly, slaves-submitters ("believers") and rebellious hellions ("sinners") both have free will in this life. In fact free will is very important, particularly in most forms of Christianity, for explaining the fall. Sophisticated theologians also explain that free will is retained in heaven, which causes people to sin, which results in their perpetual punishment being "just" because it is the sin that they choose that justifies their torture forever and ever.

Conversely, free will does not appear to exist in heaven. Believers are happy slaves-submitters who spend eternity praising God. In fact they do not have free will, per said sophisticated theologians, because they cannot rebel against God and choose evil.

What is the logic here? How can free will be so necessary and wonderful in this life, but be the "gift" of the damned in the next life? Why not just create people without free will initially, and lose this whole problem of free will and punishment altogether?

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So, why create people with free will on the first place? like Angels maybe?

(30) And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

(31) And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."

(32) They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."

(33) He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
(Quran 2:30-33)

He already created angels without free will, he wanted to create another type, which can learn and make decisions.

I agree with you that free will is very wonderful, but i disagree that it's necessary in the way you put it. The purpose of creating human beings is not to throw them to heaven or hell. You got the logic backward. You are saying that since humans need to be thrown into heaven or hell at the end, then it's necessary to have free will to justify this outcome. Am i right?

I personally believe that the proper way to view this issue should be similar to how we usually proudly say: "With great power comes great responsibility".

Why did Clinton's affair made it to headlines and made Americans go all over it but an affair of a normal man go unnoticed? You got the idea?

Since God gave us this powerful thing called free will then it comes with a package, which is to believe in God, and do good, in the same manner we value Presidents who obey and follow the constitution and do good.

We just have a double standard, so we accept what is conventional and a very logical thing to do in our regular life affairs, but when it comes to religion, we judge it and criticize it severely.

So you are asking about the hereafter, how we arguably lose free will. We don't lose free will per se, but we are rather faced with the ultimate truth. There is no arguments anymore. We can meet God finally and see the truth for ourselves without depending in any type of logic exercise or making assumptions. That happen too, to many presidents and ex-high officials who leave office. They are struck with what they claim to be the truth, and they write books about it, but ironically, they only seem to care about the truth when they leave their position.

The same can be said about those who enter heaven and those who enter hell. They all finally realize the ultimate truth after their time in this life has ended and they enter a new phase, the final and eternal one.

I hope you got what i mean!

Peace be upon you.