Do You Believe in Ghosts and Spirits?

Smart_Guy · Aug 28, 2015

Augustus said:
Thanks for your reply I'm just interested and don't really understand much about what jinn are or what they do.

Are ghosts mentioned at all in the Sira?

Are there good and bad jinn? What do jinn 'do' with their time? Do they live everywhere, or just in certain places? Are they considered to superior/equal/inferior/just different to humans? How do they interact with/influence humans?

Cool!

Jinns have both good and bad individuals, just like us humans. As for the rest of the questions, I don't know due to lack of knowledge. Really sorry about that.

Khem · Aug 28, 2015

Voted no, never been presented with adequate evidence, personally.

Alitheia Aylso · Aug 28, 2015

No, but if it could be proved to me I would love to meet one.

Milton Platt · Aug 29, 2015

Absolutely not. I do find it interesting that so many people do. When you experience something it is by default part of he natural world. Since you experienced it while in the natural world, this simply has to be so, no matter what you may want to believe.

George-ananda · Aug 29, 2015

Milton Platt said:
Absolutely not. I do find it interesting that so many people do. When you experience something it is by default part of he natural world. Since you experienced it while in the natural world, this simply has to be so, no matter what you may want to believe.

Then just look at the question as 'Do you believe in Ghosts and Spirits (as part of the natural world)?

I voted 'Yes' and believe the so-called supernatural is just the part of the natural not yet understood.

Bunyip · Aug 29, 2015

George-ananda said:
Then just look at the question as 'Do you believe in Ghosts and Spirits (as part of the natural world)?

I voted 'Yes' and believe the so-called supernatural is just the part of the natural not yet understood.

Hang on - so you believe that spirits and ghosts are part of the natural world, so they do not conflict in any way with materialism. I thought you believed that their presence somehow challenged materialism? You even said that my beliefs don't fit because I have had experiences of ghosts and you think I am a materialist - now you include them in the material world.

George-ananda · Aug 30, 2015

Bunyip said:
Hang on - so you believe that spirits and ghosts are part of the natural world, so they do not conflict in any way with materialism. I thought you believed that their presence somehow challenged materialism? You even said that my beliefs don't fit because I have had experiences of ghosts and you think I am a materialist - now you include them in the material world.

You are confusing what I mean by the terms 'material' and 'natural'. By 'materialism' I mean the matter/energy of the physical plane. I believe there are other planes astral, mental, causal, etc. that are not part of 'materialism/physicalism'. Materialists do not hold belief in the existence of other planes beyond the physical. In a broader sense, all planes are part of the 'natural'.

Bunyip · Aug 30, 2015

George-ananda said:
You are confusing what I mean by the terms 'material' and 'natural'. By 'materialism' I mean the matter/energy of the physical plane. I believe there are other planes astral, mental, causal, etc. that are not part of 'materialism/physicalism'. Materialists do not hold belief in the existence of other planes beyond the physical. In a broader sense, all planes are part of the 'natural'.

Thanks for n the answer, but if ghosts and spirits do have a natural origin they would not conflict with materialism would they? It's only the assumption that they have an origin in some other plane that materialism is not accepting is it not?

George-ananda · Aug 30, 2015

Bunyip said:
Thanks for n the answer, but if ghosts and spirits do have a natural origin they would not conflict with materialism would they? It's only the assumption that they have an origin in some other plane that materialism is not accepting is it not?

The only way spirits would not conflict with 'materialism' would be if you believe spirits are made of matter of the physical plane (as opposed to existing on etheric/astral/mental/etc. planes). I have never heard someone seriously suggest spirits or God are made of physical matter. Hence materialists do not believe in ghosts or God.

Bunyip · Aug 30, 2015

George-ananda said:
The only way spirits would not conflict with 'materialism' would be if you believe spirits are made of matter of the physical plane (as opposed to existing on etheric/astral/mental/etc. planes). I have never heard someone seriously suggest spirits or God are made of physical matter. Hence materialists do not believe in ghosts or God.

Ok. Well I seriously suggest that it is possible ghosts and spirits have a natural explanation. There, I did it! So now materialists can beleive in ghosts and spirits right?

George-ananda · Aug 30, 2015

Bunyip said:
Ok. Well I seriously suggest that it is possible ghosts and spirits have a natural explanation. There, I did it! So now materialists can beleive in ghosts and spirits right?

Wrong, because the term 'materialist' has a general meaning like all terms.

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all phenomena, including mental phenomena and consciousness, are identical with material interactions.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Bunyip · Aug 30, 2015

George-ananda said:
Wrong, because the term 'materialist' has a general meaning like all terms.

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all phenomena, including mental phenomena and consciousness, are identical with material interactions.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

You are misinterpreting - light, concepts, abstracts, energy, thought etc are not excluded by materialism. Ghost and spirits could have some natural explanation, just as lightning, thunder and wind did.

Heat is not material, it does not have a physical form - that does not mean that materialism must deny the existence of heat.

George-ananda · Aug 30, 2015

Bunyip said:
You are misinterpreting - light, concepts, abstracts, energy, thought etc are not excluded by materialism. Ghost and spirits could have some natural explanation, just as lightning, thunder and wind did.

Heat is not material, it does not have a physical form - that does not mean that materialism must deny the existence of heat.

All the things that are listed including heat and whatever are created by physical interactions on the physical plane which agrees with the definition. If you believe that spirits are created by physical interactions on the physical plane then that would be 'materialism' but that would be your unique view of the word 'ghosts'.

From the dictionary Ghosts: a disembodied soul; especially : the soul of a dead person believed to be an inhabitant of the unseen world or to appear to the living in bodily likeness

Bunyip · Aug 30, 2015

George-ananda said:
All the things that are listed including heat and whatever are created by physical interactions on the physical plane which agrees with the definition. If you believe that spirits are created by physical interactions on the physical plane then that would be 'materialism' but that would be your unique view of the word 'ghosts'.

From the dictionary Ghosts: a disembodied soul; especially : the soul of a dead person believed to be an inhabitant of the unseen world or to appear to the living in bodily likeness

Well it is hardly a unique interpretation George, quite a common one I think. Ghosts may have a deeper explanation - a concurrence of memory, place, a phenomenon of light and so on. A reflection of some aspect of the land and our connection to it that we do not yet understand?

I am not trying to disprove your view at all, I am simply trying to close the gap a little by arguing that they are really not that different. Modern India demonstrates that few Hindus seem to find a meaningful dissonance between their tradition religious views and science, in fact on the contrary India is a rapidly developing and modernising nation.

I want to convince you only to reconsider your assumption that materialism somehow denies, rules out or rejects metaphysical phenomenon - and instead consider that materialism simply has not rested on a conclusion that rules out a natural explanation.

Personally I love studying such things and don't want you to think I want to reduce them in any way by considering the possibility of a natural explanation - on the contrary, the ultimate natural explanation could prove to be something truly inspiring.

Thanks for engaging with me on this.

Smart_Guy · Aug 30, 2015

I wonder what they taste like!

MrMrdevincamus · Sep 4, 2015

George-ananda said:
Many of us do seriously consider all those things you mention above. And we still believe ghosts/spirits exist beyond reasonable doubt. In other words, the 'natural' explanations are not satisfactory to our rational minds to explain away ALL of the phenomena experienced in the course of the human experience. It seems like an attempt to force-fit something into a box that it doesn't fit in. I personally think the teachings of the east, that life exists on many planes/levels, provides a more believable explanation of what is going on. You can believe the 'natural' explanation is more reasonable and we will just have to accept we disagree. Not a shocker between us of course .

TheScholar said:
So here's a question. Do you believe in ghosts or spirits, why or why not?

Hmm' This is a question I have struggled with, at least the details thereof. As a Christian I believe many spooky things exist. For examples I am sure demons exist having seen a few, no don't laugh, I sure didn't and I am as sane as the next guy. But I don't think the Hollywood version of demons are even near right. The good news is that there is a barrier of some kind that separates spiritual world from the material world. Some biblical scholars claim supernatural 'eras' exist. By that I mean there are periods of time that supernatural events happen far more frequently than other periods. According to prophesy another supernatural era will occur near the end times when the Antichrist and the false prophet enters our world. I have not studied this subject or researched it as much as other areas of the bible, so please take the biblical comments and references in this reply with a grain of salt as the old saying goes...

Deidre · Sep 5, 2015

After seeing the movie 'the ring'...it left me wondering. that movie was terrifying!

Shadow Wolf · Sep 5, 2015

Deidre said:
After seeing the movie 'the ring'...it left me wondering. that movie was terrifying!

I love Japanese horror. It's so tense, so creepy, and so much more OH MY GOD!!! than American horror. And Japanese horror is the only horror that can make a little girl seem so horrifying and scary. But Japanese-to-American horror I don't care for much, although I loved that scene at the end of The Ring that showed that girl crawl out the TV screen and do that odd, rugged, and jerky walk towards that guy. Jason Voorhees is a bright sunny day in the park complete with a rainbow compared to that girl crawling out of the screen and walking towards that guy. It also gave me an obsession, since I first saw the movie, to call someone up just after they watch that movie and whisper to them "seven days..." And I love the Crimson Butterfly games because they tend to get tense and creepy at times. Resident Evil had those dobermans jumping through the windows in the second one, but that's it. Crimson Butterfly fills you with a sense of dread as these super creepy ghosts lurk towards you and then suddenly lunge at you, but only a short ways, drawing you in, seeing those distorted shapes creeping towards you, the darkness, the flashes of light, and that slow movement. They're also based on Japanese urban legends and ghost stories, which also helps to draw you in, which helps to add to the creepiness factor of the games.
As for the OP, I haven't changed my mind since last year. I've seen things (including the hand of my dead paternal grandpa reaching down towards me to touch my shoulder on the night my grandmother died, and something that looked like Anubis rising from the ground and observing me), but what they are I have no idea. It's beyond me to say with any certainty if what I saw was real or just an illusion.

Deidre · Sep 6, 2015

Shadow Wolf said:
I love Japanese horror. It's so tense, so creepy, and so much more OH MY GOD!!! than American horror. And Japanese horror is the only horror that can make a little girl seem so horrifying and scary. But Japanese-to-American horror I don't care for much, although I loved that scene at the end of The Ring that showed that girl crawl out the TV screen and do that odd, rugged, and jerky walk towards that guy. Jason Voorhees is a bright sunny day in the park complete with a rainbow compared to that girl crawling out of the screen and walking towards that guy. It also gave me an obsession, since I first saw the movie, to call someone up just after they watch that movie and whisper to them "seven days..." And I love the Crimson Butterfly games because they tend to get tense and creepy at times. Resident Evil had those dobermans jumping through the windows in the second one, but that's it. Crimson Butterfly fills you with a sense of dread as these super creepy ghosts lurk towards you and then suddenly lunge at you, but only a short ways, drawing you in, seeing those distorted shapes creeping towards you, the darkness, the flashes of light, and that slow movement. They're also based on Japanese urban legends and ghost stories, which also helps to draw you in, which helps to add to the creepiness factor of the games.
As for the OP, I haven't changed my mind since last year. I've seen things (including the hand of my dead paternal grandpa reaching down towards me to touch my shoulder on the night my grandmother died, and something that looked like Anubis rising from the ground and observing me), but what they are I have no idea. It's beyond me to say with any certainty if what I saw was real or just an illusion.

I agree!! There was also this odd music or sound throughout the movie, like...disjointed notes or something. Creepy! Scary! I also find horror movies that depict children in such a way, to be the most terrifying, as we tend to view children as innocent and happy.

Disciple · Nov 19, 2015

For all who disbelieve in hauntings/ghosts/etc., if you ever experienced true poltergeist activity you would certainly be of the opposite opinion.

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