Why the secrecy

Theweirdtophat · Apr 7, 2015

I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

Nietzsche · Apr 7, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

Do you tell everyone every little thing you do? Some things are personal, and best left that way.

Theweirdtophat · Apr 7, 2015

Nietzsche said:
Do you tell everyone every little thing you do? Some things are personal, and best left that way.

Of course you don't tell everyone everything you do but even if magic is a part of your faith or plays a role in it, they still keep silent. How many people do you hear people openly speak about it? when asked about their faith, they don't mention that part. I can understand as the only response they'd get would be rolling eyes so they might feel as if there's no point in talking about it because they won't believe them anyway. Of course if they were to come out on it instead of hiding it, people might be more inclined to believe it.

beenherebeforeagain · Apr 7, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
Of course you don't tell everyone everything you do but even if magic is a part of your faith or plays a role in it, they still keep silent. How many people do you hear people openly speak about it? when asked about their faith, they don't mention that part. I can understand as the only response they'd get would be rolling eyes so they might feel as if there's no point in talking about it because they won't believe them anyway. Of course if they were to come out on it instead of hiding it, people might be more inclined to believe it.

One possible reason could be a holdover fear of prosecution/persecution for your practices.

Another might be that it seems to be a common belief that discussing magic reduces its power/effectiveness. This is why I don't discuss in any detail at all what I do, and I rarely talk of it in general.

The mileage of others may vary.

Nietzsche · Apr 7, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
Of course you don't tell everyone everything you do but even if magic is a part of your faith or plays a role in it, they still keep silent. How many people do you hear people openly speak about it? when asked about their faith, they don't mention that part. I can understand as the only response they'd get would be rolling eyes so they might feel as if there's no point in talking about it because they won't believe them anyway. Of course if they were to come out on it instead of hiding it, people might be more inclined to believe it.

For me personally, I don't bring it up because I am not convinced it works. I do it because I know it's not going to mess anything up, and I enjoy symbolism & ritual. We're designed like that.

Theweirdtophat · Apr 7, 2015

beenherebeforeagain said:
One possible reason could be a holdover fear of prosecution/persecution for your practices.
Another might be that it seems to be a common belief that discussing magic reduces its power/effectiveness. This is why I don't discuss in any detail at all what I do, and I rarely talk of it in general. The mileage of others may vary.

It's understandable that they might frown upon it, but some countries like America won't burn you at the stake for doing such practices nowadays. The most you'll get is rolled eyes or frowns. It could reduce effectiveness but I've had people personally talk to me about magic and it hasn't reduced their effectiveness yet so I'm not sure. I just noticed the ones that do practice it rather discreetly and wondered why.

beenherebeforeagain · Apr 7, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
It's understandable that they might frown upon it, but some countries like America won't burn you at the stake for doing such practices nowadays. The most you'll get is rolled eyes or frowns. It could reduce effectiveness but I've had people personally talk to me about magic and it hasn't reduced their effectiveness yet so I'm not sure. I just noticed the ones that do practice it rather discreetly and wondered why.

Yeah, but you should see what they could have done if they hadn't talked about it with you!

Seriously, though, there's a difference in talking shop with other practitioners and talking about it to the general public. And different practitioners do have different views on what to share and what not to share. If you and I were to sit down to talk about it, unless I knew you well, I would be unlikely to speak in anything more than generalities; even if I knew you well, there would be limits to what I'd reveal about my practices. If you were apprenticed to me, I would of course probably tell you more...but maybe not, too--most of what I've learned was from trial and error, direction of the spirits, and a few hints I gleaned from others.

Note, though, that I am a solitary; people who practice in groups obviously share quite a bit, and you can even read a lot of this kind of thing online. It's not like EVERYONE is being secretive about it!

Quintessence · Apr 7, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

*chuckles* Here is an experiment for you to try.

Tell a dozen people and tell them that you practice magic. Random people. Observe their responses.

I think after doing this experiment, you will have answered your own question. When mainstream society is going to mock you and disregard you, why on earth would you want to throw your pearls only to watch them trampled by swine?

Unveiled Artist · Apr 7, 2015

I agree. When someone tells me that they will pray for me, that isnt secret. If someone says God healed me from x or He gave me His blessings, it is public not private.

We dont have to tell anyone how we practice. However, I find it just as sensible for me to say I will send my blessings to you or I will do a spell for your healing as one tells me about prayers.

Not many people say what they prayed "about" but usually they are not secretative to tell others that they pray.

Why not we the same?

I totally agree.

Theweirdtophat said:
I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

Unveiled Artist · Apr 7, 2015

Quintessence said:
When mainstream society is going to mock you and disregard you, why on earth would you want to throw your pearls only to watch them trampled by swine?

oh thats goooood.

Unveiled Artist · Apr 7, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

I could give you some reasons that people want to or need to be secretive.

1. I live in a Senior Residential community owned by the Catholic Church. I also work as a English as a second language teacher, for Education for Foriegners*, that is sponsored through the Catholic Church.

I have freedom of speech and religion (innthe states) to express my religion. I have rules on "how" I express it both in my lease and work.

For example, I can hang a pentacle on my door. I would upset my neighbors (who gossip) if I told them I do spells.

At work, I can wear my pentacle ring. If its full or new moon and I wear my pentacle necklace, Ill hide it. We cant talk about religion and politics in claas. Adult students like to trust their teachers. Religion seems to be a big influence.

2. Non solitaries such as Wiccans have code of ethics within their groups. So they may talk about generals but never what they do in the group and whats related to it.

3. Same with some ethnic faiths. We have a botanica shop near me where Id like to get my readings from a santera/o soon. They said they dont talk about their practices, conjure and rootwork, because of its history in their country and bias today. The Catholic Church either murdered or converted you if you were not Catholic. Still happens today, except the Church is not murderering (hopefully) but many businesses drop because the Church appealed to ones that go against "their" morals not the managers. (Personal testimony)

3. I wont speak for all solitaries, but I find a general consensus that magic is personal. It is like going to confession. Most catholics if not all will not tell you what they confess. Since I am confirmed, a lot tell me that they have without waiting for anti catholic, um, mess. I thinknits similar to magic users. Avoiding the bias of people who just, dont, know.

4. Then you have to decern "what" you want to talk about. Do you wany to tell people, "I used blood with salt, mixed it, and placed it on a doll where you are hurting to send you healing."? Talking about rocks is fine. Astrology is complicated especially to those uninterested. And tarots! Here, their eyes "want" to burn you to the stake.

5. Also depends on age, social, work situations, and appropriate setting (no magic shop talk at your child's barmitza), and common sense.

6. Most places in the cities of the states are tolerant. Down south east not so much. Depends on location too.

*fictional

The Sum of Awe · Apr 8, 2015

A whole bunch of different reasons: Sanctity of the grouping, to keep it fresh (if you look at revealed religions, they are 'rusty' from all the exposure), because they are uncomfortable with new members in the same way you might be about tourists in your area, the teachings can spoil if they were just thrown out there, sometimes practices are what many people frown upon, major religion heads opposing these groups would have grounds to start bashing it senselessly, etc. plenty more.

The thing of it is, these practices aren't for everyone. Sometimes, the less the better.

Why are some recipes kept secret by chefs?

Theweirdtophat · Apr 8, 2015

Quintessence said:
*chuckles* Here is an experiment for you to try.

Tell a dozen people and tell them that you practice magic. Random people. Observe their responses.

I think after doing this experiment, you will have answered your own question. When mainstream society is going to mock you and disregard you, why on earth would you want to throw your pearls only to watch them trampled by swine?

Well obviously they aren't going to listen if you just tell them and I didn't say to just explain it but actually show them and show them how it's done, not just say "I practice magic. Surely you must believed in it." That makes no sense. People needlessly keep it secret as if they are ashamed of it if they let others know, when it shouldn't be necessary. If people actually showed it, people would be less skeptical.

Quintessence · Apr 11, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
Well obviously they aren't going to listen if you just tell them and I didn't say to just explain it but actually show them and show them how it's done, not just say "I practice magic. Surely you must believed in it." That makes no sense. People needlessly keep it secret as if they are ashamed of it if they let others know, when it shouldn't be necessary. If people actually showed it, people would be less skeptical.

Maybe. It's hard to say. Personally, I prefer this stuff stays out of the mainstream. I was reminded of why when I read a recent article posted on the Wild Hunt. If spellcraft goes mainstream, you can bet your broom that it would be commodified and de-sacrilized by capitalism. In some cases, it already is in our own community (spell kits anyone?), and it would be unfortunate for that trend to increase.

Politesse · Apr 11, 2015

Safety. People can and do experience discrimination because they participate in minority faiths. Among those in my little circle, there are those who have lost jobs, one who lost her child, another very nearly killed during a botched "exorcism" by her lovely god-fearing family. Yes, you can sue. But who wants to spend their life in constant and often unsuccessful litigation, when a bit of discretion will suffice? Not everyone has the desire or stamina for evangelism/social activism. I'm pretty sure my own job would be at risk if any of my students knew about my personal level of participation in magical practices. Luckily, separation of church and state works both ways, so confession on that front will never be expected.

Of course, mainstream religions use magic openly and liberally. If anything, the feast of the Eucharist I celebrated on Easter suggested a belief in a much stronger and older magic than anything my group attempted at Ostara. Raising a dead man? Eating his flesh? Baptising a confirmand "in water and spirit"? But we don't call it magic when it is socially acceptable, even if it is much the same thing.

Seeker of Ka · Aug 21, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

1: I often do not have a good reason to.
2: Many people will become hostile/suspicious.
3: I may become atacked for my beliefs and I do not like to harm others.
4: I talk about it online because most of the dangerous are not applicable.

1137 · Aug 26, 2015

I think there is an inevitable outcome in magic where the practitioner becomes separate from other people. Not better or worse, but different. At this point successful communication in the area breaks down. The magician views the world and it's contents inherently differently. It makes us better listeners, but we find less who can listen to us. In the end you'll just end up confusing each other or at each others throats.

Nearly everyone I met who found magic did so on their own. They had religious families or friends and they found it anyways. And because they did it alone it is more pure and more successful, less tainted and confused.

Adramelek · Aug 28, 2015

At this point in my life I really don't have a desire to reveal to strangers or acquaintances that I am a Setian/Satanist/Black Magician. I have, at the time, my own data entry business I run out of an office inside my house. Customers who come over will find no religious or occult symbolism or paraphernalia of any kind in my office. Nor do I wear any kind of occult jewelry during business hours. On off hours on my own time is a different story, though even still when I go out I usually, aside from wearing black or primarily dark clothing, I just wear either my red or my black onyx/sterling silver pentagram rings. However, if one were to go into other parts of my house they would definitely know that I am of the "Dark Side".

Erebus · Aug 28, 2015

1137 said:
I think there is an inevitable outcome in magic where the practitioner becomes separate from other people. Not better or worse, but different. At this point successful communication in the area breaks down. The magician views the world and it's contents inherently differently. It makes us better listeners, but we find less who can listen to us. In the end you'll just end up confusing each other or at each others throats.
.

Got to agree with you here.
At one time I did attempt to explain things to people. Nowadays it's extremely rare for me to discuss it with people who aren't already in the know. It's not so much that I'm afraid of the consequences, but that it's exhausting trying to bring average Joe up to speed.

Unveiled Artist · Nov 9, 2015

Theweirdtophat said:
I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

Reviving this thread. I wonder if its a trust issue. I mean we can talk magic shop in the private communities. Then, still, thered be holding back. Whats there to hide if we want to mingle with like minded folks. Im stumped.

Did you ever got an anwer?

Theweirdtophat said:
I never really understood why people tend to hide it from others. Most magic users usually don't say they practice magic in public or even online, but why? Why should someone hide it? Perhaps if more people spoke about it, other people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "make believe" Anyone who does practice it, like I do, know that it's real. Whether you want to call it energy work or magic or blessings, it's still real.

Why the secrecy

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