People keep saying this, and I keep shouting "dear god, no". The reformation was started by an anti-Semitic(even for the time) German and despite having legitimate points, only became a liberalizing force after Martin Luther himself had died. Islam instead needs an Enlightenment. A reformation would just boil it down without removing the nastier bits. An Enlightenment would be self-reflection and acknowledgment of failures. I would actually go so far as to say that Islam had an anti-Enlightenment(Endarkening?), or rather, its had two of them. The first one would be when a Muslim cleric whos name I cannot remember basically banned the study of astronomy & math, despite that being unarguably Islam's greatest contribution to world culture & knowledge. The second was much, much later(around 1916-1918..), and happened without a single direct cause, just the loss of its stabilizing & liberalizing force.
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Slovakia is banning Muslim immigration.
- Thread starter jeager106
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I see repressive regimes passing repressive laws. Banning stuff rarely works, but it does **** a lot people off. Those laws may provoke a few, but it won't get rid of it. It also gives those who are already considering joining ISIS a damn good reason to do it, because their religion is now illegal.
morphesium
Active Member
The freedom that we enjoy now is the results of a lot of sacrifices that were made by our forefathers. There were times when if someone said " Earth is at the center of the solar system" and he would have to pay a big penalty for that. Much of the world is free from their crippling religion. The freedom that we enjoy now came with a huge cost and i do believe that it brings some responsibility to preserve it.
French press gun attack, blooming supporters of ISIS across the world and many many out there - I don't think it is right not to think about these, the reason why such things are on the rise.
Unless we make people educate that their religion is just a ploy, that there is nothing godly in their religion, unless we free them from their crippling thoughts (and it seems this is near to impossible), it would question our freedom, our security one day.
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Different attitudes towards women and sexuality in many cultures. The greater respect and freedom given to women in much of Western culture than what is the norm in many other cultures allows such attitudes to rise to the surface and become more visible.
that's your opinion which i disagree .
where is respect when the poverity push millions of women work in strip clubs and bars and adultery to live in West ?
EDITED add and correct typo
the freedom of given your body for money (to enjoy the others) , that's disgusting .
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Quite easily. I've worked with a few people who although far from being observant consider themselves Muslim nonetheless. For many of these people being born to Muslim parents makes you Muslim regardless of whether or not you practice or even believe.
The actual practice of religion, is different than religious identity. You see this in Christianity too, particularly in Orthodoxy.
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The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
And here we go...
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Can you please provide some evidence from Islamic texts to back up your childish claims?
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
Once again,we are experimenting how prejudice and generalization turns a mentally ok person into a paranoid. How awful and miserable.
http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-law.html
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/muslims-try-pass-sharia-law-alabama-citizens-say-hell-watch/
http://www.rt.com/usa/263529-us-muslims-sharia-law/
The majority of the people answered that they’d rather live under strict Sharia law. Sharia law gives women virtually no rights at all, they can be married at the age of nine, and is a literal interpretation of the Quran, which governs all aspect of life.
Don't you read your own Koran?
I could post dozens of citations just from the net and you know it.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
@jeager106
Fun fact: When Muslims speak about their desire to live in an "Islamic State" they usually mean the Khalifat that came after Mohammed.
When Mohammed arrived in Yathrib, which was named Medina after his death he supposedly was a co-author on the Constitution of Medina.
This Constitution was far more inclusive than anything that ever came after it in the Islamic world (even more inclusive than early Al-Andalus) especially after his death. Today Muslims call themselves the "Ummah". The Constitution of Medina calls everyone that lives after the laws of the State(back then Medina) the Ummah. Including Pagans.
To quote Wikipedia
"The non-Muslims had the following rights:[36]
Fun fact: When Muslims speak about their desire to live in an "Islamic State" they usually mean the Khalifat that came after Mohammed.
When Mohammed arrived in Yathrib, which was named Medina after his death he supposedly was a co-author on the Constitution of Medina.
This Constitution was far more inclusive than anything that ever came after it in the Islamic world (even more inclusive than early Al-Andalus) especially after his death. Today Muslims call themselves the "Ummah". The Constitution of Medina calls everyone that lives after the laws of the State(back then Medina) the Ummah. Including Pagans.
To quote Wikipedia
"The non-Muslims had the following rights:[36]
- The security of God is equal for all groups,[37]
- Non-Muslim members will have the same political and cultural rights as Muslims. They will have autonomy and freedom of religion.[38]
- Non-Muslims will take up arms against the enemy of the nation and share the cost of war. There is to be no treachery between the two.[39]
- Non-Muslims will not be obliged to take part in religious wars of the Muslims.[40]"
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
stay here and listen
the truth sometimes hurt
Being a tad pretentious, aren't we?
Western society isn't perfect - specifically British society is not perfect when it comes to respecting women. But at least we are making progress. In our societies women at least have a voice in public where they aren't at risk from being shut down or threatened with violence from the government or religious authorities. In Western culture women can vote, run for political office, have bodily autonomy, drive a car, go out alone and not be harassed by state authorities for 'being a whore' for doing so etc. Our societies recognise honour-killings as wrong, are removing the long-held and undeserved privilege of religious organisations who believe they can use their beliefs to dictate to women what they can and cannot do with their bodies, and are outlawing the barbarous practice of FGM. We're slowly moving towards a society where people receive jobs because of merit rather than their sex organs, where women are actually included in womens' rights debates (I'm looking at you, Saudi Arabia). We're slowly coming to realise that the onus is not and should not be on women to take responsibility for how men react towards them; rather it's man's responsibility to control his own urges & behaviour. We're even starting to challenge ludicrous patriarchal trends.
Unlike Islamic countries.
I am talking for my country Algeria . the women can vote, or work .or drive car ...etc
We don't have killing for honor , there is no such thing in Islam said "kill un-virgin girl" .
bad people and good people are everywhere .
that's ignonces of my living situation
you ask and am answser .
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Don't you read your own Bible?
More than you could know.
But why the silly way off topic question about reading the Christian
Bible when the topic is about Muslims being banned from immigrating
to another country.
Just to remind you the issue is Muslims being banned from immigrating
to other countries and the reasons those countries give for doing so.
Gharib does not need you to argue his arguments, nor comment
for him.
I'm, sure he is capable to answer questions or comments for
himself without a self appointed, uninvited, advocate.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I'm not trying to. I was asking you a question.
There is a great deal of violence and bloodshed in the Bible. That God is clearly not pro-life, because his divine command was abortion for many. He may be described as peaceful, loving, merciful, and benevolent, but the facts are he is responsible for a great deal of bloodshed, beyond the level of genocide, throughout the OT. Slavery is condoned and permitted, sex slavery is ordered from time-to-time. God asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, that is very cruel, very sadistic, and calling it a "test" is a sick joke. The NT is hardly any better, and the Paul parts of it give some very misogynistic laws, and we find a foundation and support for some of the things we criticize ISIS and other Middle Eastern groups of doing.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Nevertheless, it seems nonsensical, right? I
In actuality, the Bible is far more relevant than the Koran here. The decision makers here are the ones trying to limit the immigration of Muslims to their country. Thus, it seems that, assuming that at least some of them are Christians, they are the ones who need to take a second look at their scripture.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Oh so you really have no clue what you are talking about other than copy paste from anti Islamic sites that spread propaganda and false accusations. How low, you don't even have actual reference from Islamic texts to support your claims yet you go on sprouting crap about things you know jack all about.