My problem with Paganism - help appreciated

G'day

As a teen exploring neo-Paganism in the late 1990's, it was impressed upon me by family members that my interest would attract 'bad energies' and cause bad things to happen to me, my home and my family members. When my mum got sick and taken to hospital when I was 14, she said it was because of my 'witchy' friends (I didn't have any 'witchy' friends and I was too nervous to do any sort of practice or prayer at all, anyway).

Now, even thought I'm 30, I still have trouble shaking this feeling when considering any type of Pagan path. At the moment I'm exploring Asatru and reading a little bit about Theodism.

Whilst part of me knows that Heathenry is the religion of my distant ancestors, and the lifestyle still perseveres among people today to some degree, I have this blockage of fear that if I actually get up off my armchair and *do* instead of just *read*, I'll trigger a cascade of terrible happenings, or, more likely, attribute every bad action which happens to anyone around me, to my Pagan actions.

I'm terrified that I'll do something simple, a small offering or some such, and then spend the next few weeks paranoid and looking out for any kind of trouble that I could have caused. I'm terrified that I'll end up with this lists of gods and beings I need to placate every night before I am able to sleep.

Surely some of you have had similar experiences (perhaps because you've transitioned out of Christianity) and I'd love to hear how you handled it. And any other advice is much appreciated.

Thanks
Treks

I can only speak for the Norse traditions, but the Aesir & Vanir do not care if you worship or not. It's not an obligation or commitment unless that's what you want. There is no directive to worship or even acknowledge. Believers are not rewarded for belief alone, and non-believers are rewarded based on what they do rather than what they think. It's immaterial to them. They have better things, more pressing things, to do than micromanage our lives and look down on us for this or that.

They're not perfect, we're not perfect. The relationship goes both ways.

I've read about other people feeling like you do. There's a large element of superstition that comes from Christianity. I was raised Roman Catholic, and everything was "God willing", "it's God's will (that baby died horribly)", and a bunch of other bulldookie scare tactics. I'm sure it's possible to invoke bad energies or malicious or malevolent spirits, but I do not believe that if you are praying to, honoring, worshiping the gods and goddesses, spirits and other beings of light that they will let "bad things" happen. They don't get pissed off if you flub a prayer or knock over a candle. I don't believe those are omens, other than portents that you're not paying attention to what you're doing! I've had the worst run of luck over the past 2+ months... husband in and out of the hospital and physical rehab (still there), house flooded twice in 4 days from frozen and burst pipes, $9,000 damage, bills up the wazoo, and a few other things. I've thought "OK, I pissed off some god or goddess", but that's ridiculous. If they sent these tests, which I don't think they did because dookie happens, I'm learning from them. I need not go into that but suffice to say I don't believe anything negative came from the "other side". I think you'll be fine with following what your instincts tell you about a path.

Were you raised Christian? If so, that is the source of your nervousness. I am an ex-Christian and found that that in itself is a challenge; you have to sort through your deconversion before you can really move on. This site helped me: ex-christian.net

I guess I have a different spin on this because I wasn't raised religious and wasn't indoctrinated into any faith. I converted to Catholicism three years ago; and, now I understand the stigma and what you're feeling with Christianity in general by the way the belief system is structured (Christianity in general) and the biases about different denominations who believe in the same God and same Christ.

I started practicing neo paganism (which I hate that word, actually) half a year ago since my grandmother passed (long story). I felt I needed to be more close to my family.

What made me "get up and do it" was finding what in my particular belief helps me be a better person inside and out. I thought about my family. Does this belief help bring me closer to my family. I thought about my social life. How will this belief affect me in my interactions with others.

In short one way is to question how the belief system or perspective you're interested in will change you into a better person (however yo define i that to be)
--

As for the creepy things happening, it depends on what specific thing you do. For example, if I offered the wrong thing to an ancestral spirit, I'd know it internally. I notice if I'm walking over someone else's grave, if I want to pay respects by putting something say a flower on their gravestone, I don't because the offering isn't "welcomed" I don't know the person and his or her spirit hasn't made him or herself known to me.

In short a lot of it is being aware of what you are doing and aware of how you feel. I think awareness pretty much covers that.

Most pagan beliefs old and new have some type of honoring of the ancestors. I would start there. If you have family members you already known and have passed on, I believe they are still on earth. Make a connection that way; because you are the only one who knows personally what that family member wants in an offering. So, that "will they do something to others or me" would not be there because you already know the person.

I really have to think more on your question. I personally believe if you use an object or collection in a certain way to create a "spell" it doesn't matter the intent, you already made the action. (Just like washing dishes. You don't have to have the motivation to wash dishes to know that soap and water cleans a dish). Likewise, I'd be mindful of what you do.

Prayer is a good start. I'm sure there are no hard feelings and happenings to others unless you pray bad about them. That's also a good start too--of doing something.

Treks said:

G'day

As a teen exploring neo-Paganism in the late 1990's, it was impressed upon me by family members that my interest would attract 'bad energies' and cause bad things to happen to me, my home and my family members. When my mum got sick and taken to hospital when I was 14, she said it was because of my 'witchy' friends (I didn't have any 'witchy' friends and I was too nervous to do any sort of practice or prayer at all, anyway).

Now, even thought I'm 30, I still have trouble shaking this feeling when considering any type of Pagan path. At the moment I'm exploring Asatru and reading a little bit about Theodism.

Whilst part of me knows that Heathenry is the religion of my distant ancestors, and the lifestyle still perseveres among people today to some degree, I have this blockage of fear that if I actually get up off my armchair and *do* instead of just *read*, I'll trigger a cascade of terrible happenings, or, more likely, attribute every bad action which happens to anyone around me, to my Pagan actions.

I'm terrified that I'll do something simple, a small offering or some such, and then spend the next few weeks paranoid and looking out for any kind of trouble that I could have caused. I'm terrified that I'll end up with this lists of gods and beings I need to placate every night before I am able to sleep.

Surely some of you have had similar experiences (perhaps because you've transitioned out of Christianity) and I'd love to hear how you handled it. And any other advice is much appreciated.

Thanks
Treks

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Orbit said:

Were you raised Christian? If so, that is the source of your nervousness. I am an ex-Christian and found that that in itself is a challenge; you have to sort through your deconversion before you can really move on. This site helped me: ex-christian.net

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Hi Orbit

No, I'm not an ex-Christian. But my mum is sort-of Christian, and passed her fears on to me, I think. I was fine for 10 years as a Sikh, no problems, it's just the Pagan paths that I struggle with.

I'm with most of the others here, figuring you were probably raised in, or around, the religions of Abraham.

Christianity and Islam use psychological terroristic brainwashing techniques to keep people fearful of leaving the religions.

Thus a constant barrage of - only OUR religion goes to Paradise, - all other people are TORTURED FOREVER!

Such a barrage actually works. Most of us that have decided these religions are not God's work, - still have to overcome that negative thought training.

But you can break free of it, - just by contemplating why they would need such negative brainwashing to keep their people, in the first place.

I'll take Spirituality over religious dogma, any day.

*

I struggled with a similar block. I am an ex-Christian and it has been a difficult process to lay aside my old fears.

I would encourage you to be mindful of your fear/nervousness and to examine it in the moment. Ask yourself why you are afraid...I cannot say what would be best for you, but for me, I have found that sometimes I have had to push through the fear by refusing to let it hold me back.

I would also say that there are few things so fulfilling to me as connecting with the traditions of my ancestors (who were mainly Celtic). To me, it has been well worth it.

Best of wishes to you.

Treks said:

G'day

As a teen exploring neo-Paganism in the late 1990's, it was impressed upon me by family members that my interest would attract 'bad energies' and cause bad things to happen to me, my home and my family members. When my mum got sick and taken to hospital wheni was 14, she said it was because of my 'witchy' friends (I didn't have any 'witchy' friends and I was too nervous to do any sort of practice or prayer at all, anyway).

Now, even thought I'm 30, I still have trouble shaking this feeling when considering any type of Pagan path. At the moment I'm exploring Asatru and reading a little bit about Theodism.

Whilst part of me knows that Heathenry is the religion of my distant ancestors, and the lifestyle still perseveres among people today to some degree, I have this blockage of fear that if I actually get up off my armchair and *do* instead of just *read*, I'll trigger a cascade of terrible happenings, or, more likely, attribute every bad action which happens to anyone around me, to my Pagan actions.

I'm terrified that I'll do something simple, a small offering or some such, and then spend the next few weeks paranoid and looking out for any kind of trouble that I could have caused. I'm terrified that I'll end up with this lists of gods and beings I need to placate every night before I am able to sleep.

Surely some of you have had similar experiences (perhaps because you've transitioned out of Christianity) and I'd love to hear how you handled it. And any other advice is much appreciated.

Thanks
Treks

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You shouldn't ever feel pressure or anxiety that you are being neglectful, doing it wrong, etc. These traditions are all about expression, celebration, connections. It's about how you view and interact with relationships on every level. Most importantly how you benefit and enrich your self and what is in relationship.

The shift in perception towards more realistic and wholesome worldview and strengthening of desirable characteristics within a framework that speaks to you on a personal level - is basically paganism/neopaganism regardless of specific rituals and methods.

The supreme importance of any specific religious beliefs or actions melts away after a while - it sinks in that ideas it may be wrong or right never really applied. Every piece worth anything is to serve you in being as fully and authentically you as possible. You don't serve tradition. It's a flip-flop of the classical take on religion we get programmed with.

Not sure if it makes sense. Definitely cutting baggage loose and reinvigorating discovery is a big part of taking on a new tradition of anything...to do it, and by far most importantly your self, justice. You don't lose the worthy parts of other traditions, cultures, worldviews, etc. which previously grafted on to you in the process.

Treks said:

G'day

As a teen exploring neo-Paganism in the late 1990's, it was impressed upon me by family members that my interest would attract 'bad energies' and cause bad things to happen to me, my home and my family members. When my mum got sick and taken to hospital when I was 14, she said it was because of my 'witchy' friends (I didn't have any 'witchy' friends and I was too nervous to do any sort of practice or prayer at all, anyway).

Now, even thought I'm 30, I still have trouble shaking this feeling when considering any type of Pagan path. At the moment I'm exploring Asatru and reading a little bit about Theodism.

Whilst part of me knows that Heathenry is the religion of my distant ancestors, and the lifestyle still perseveres among people today to some degree, I have this blockage of fear that if I actually get up off my armchair and *do* instead of just *read*, I'll trigger a cascade of terrible happenings, or, more likely, attribute every bad action which happens to anyone around me, to my Pagan actions.

I'm terrified that I'll do something simple, a small offering or some such, and then spend the next few weeks paranoid and looking out for any kind of trouble that I could have caused. I'm terrified that I'll end up with this lists of gods and beings I need to placate every night before I am able to sleep.

Surely some of you have had similar experiences (perhaps because you've transitioned out of Christianity) and I'd love to hear how you handled it. And any other advice is much appreciated.

Thanks
Treks

Click to expand...

Hi treks,

Christianity uses fear to keep people in. It purposely instates deep fears in people. Parents then bring these fears upon children. In extreme cases it creates psychosis, all these pictures of devil, hell and damnation. But that is actually Christianity looking in her own mirror, for there is no end to the evil Christians did to innocent people. It haunts their subconsciousness and they see evil everywhere as a result. You see the same thing with criminals, they easily become paranoid. But living and identifying with such people we are infected as well.

I find it an enormous relief to having rid myself of this thinking, this binary black-white thinking that allows no nuances, that only allows two choices, heaven or hell. I lost my fears. That does not mean that I lost my distinction. More than ever I make my own ethical deliberations and I am firmly committed to higher values and virtues, but I no longer attach them to a creed.

I believe that we carry the consequences of our own actions and that is the only thing to worry about, doing the right things. Which is opposed to Christian thinking in which the end justifies the means.

If you are so afraid, you are still a believer, rather than a free person. To be free takes some courage. I think our souls are meant to be free, and we owe it to ourselves to be the best persons possible. Christianity teaches that you can do wrong all the time and then wash it clean simply by asking forgiveness. Christianity even demands people to confess they are evil, otherwise they can not be forgiven. I always found it a strange sadomasochistic master-slave relationship. It is Christianity that gave me the creeps, not Paganism.

Yes Pagans can be or become evil too. It depends what your looking for. If you seek power over others than the lust of power will soon get the better of you. That is dangerous. But if you turn to the beautiful spirits for virtues, guidance and inspiration, that is what you get also. In Paganism the responsibility lies solely in your own hands.

To be honest I never had similar experiences. Leaving Christianity was leaving the fear system, and I never had those fears again. Nowadays I have come to see the Christian God as a power hungry soul collecting demon and I am glad I am free of his influence. I find it indeed a scary figure, realizing that:
- he comes back to destroy the world (ruthless)
- his worshipers eat his body (cannibalism)
- his worshipers drink his blood (vampire)
- they revere suffering as path to him (masochism)
- he tortures those that reject him eternally (psychopath)
- he demands that his worshipers fear him (intimidating)
- he wants to be the only one revered (megalomaniac)
- his followers engaged in endless genocides (pure evil)
- every war is fought in his name (sacrifices to him)
- the victims are called ¨sacrifices of war¨(bloodthirsty)
- he can not stand rejection (Demons have huge egos)
- he despise this world (hate no love)
- he is a jealous God (another despicable trait)
- his love is not unconditional (you must revere him)
- his love is not unselfish (it is all about him)
- his love is not impartial (only for those that worship him)
- he demands peoples souls

Frankly I find Christianity a whole lot more scaring than Paganism. I happily sit under a tree and worship the Sun and Moon and Wind and Rain and Mother Earth and all the beautiful beings in Nature around me. I am not afraid, and I am sure I have nothing to fear when I leave this world.

If Paganism scares you, you may be a Christian at heart, and that is your path to go. Why not, not everybody is meant to be a Pagan. Some people feel more secure in a rigid control system than in freedom. As you have so many fears leaving Christianity, maybe Christianity is the way to go for you, at least for now. That is the great thing about Paganism, no one is forcing you to be anything. Follow your own heart, that is all I can say.

To be fair, human sacrifice, masochism and blood magic are present in a lot of pagan religions historically. The things that bother me about Christianity and make me prefer paganism:

- original sin
- morality based on obedience
- hypocrisy towards polytheism
- salvation by faith
- rigid views on sexuality and gender
- logical contradictions
- scriptural infallibility/literalism
- restriction of knowledge by a "benevolent" God
- sacrificing innocents to absolve guilty
- "domination" of nature and non-human animals

That being said, some Christian traditions have their pluses as well. Still, I've known for a long time that it could never be my path. That way lies madness - and not the fun kind (more the "severely triggering my anxiety disorders" kind).

As an ex-Mormon I still struggle with similar blocks to this day. There are times when I experience sudden bouts of fear; what if the Mormons (or Christians in general) are right? What if people abandoned worship of the old gods for a reason? What if there were convincing displays of power from El's early disciples? What if I honour the old gods because I'm still following the tendency to make bad choices in the face of the knowledge they're bad choices?

And on, and on, and on. There are even times where these fears bleed through into my current practises. Some days I'm not sure whether I honour the gods I do because I want to any more, or because I've said I will and I feel obligated (pressured, even) to honour those words; and that things will get very bad for me if I back out because the gods will be angry with me.

Fortunately I can take a step back, take a breath and a moment to calm my thoughts. Any god who inspires devotion in his/her followers through fear does not deserve the worship of free men, even if they get it. The old gods don't seem to care whether I worship them or not; I've not been struck by Thor because I used to say prayers to him then stopped.

Kind of an old thread but I'll reply anyway. I hope you've been able to overcome your fears @Treks !

If not, here's some bits of advice.

First my own personal religious philosophy: There is no true religion. All religions are simply human interpretations of the Divine. Find the one that speaks to you.

Now for a historical perspective: Paganism/Polytheism predates the Abrahamic faiths by thousands of years and there's evidence to prove the ancient Hebrews were at first polytheistic, who then became henotheistic, and later monotheistic.

I understand where you're coming from. I converted to Hinduism after about three years of deep thought and paranoia. Whenever I'd bring it up to my mother, she'd always get angry and tell me to pray to Jesus (they're Catholics). I always had this feeling that "Jesus was angry at me," and that I had let lucifer into my life to wreak havoc. Since then, I've shaken my fear, and fully embraced my beliefs to the fullest. After accepting what I believe for the first time, I felt nothing but pure bliss. Unique beliefs are a wonderful thing, and if you don't believe in Christianity anymore -- "the devil" can't harm you.

Saubhagya (good luck)

A Greased Scotsman said:

As an ex-Mormon I still struggle with similar blocks to this day. There are times when I experience sudden bouts of fear; what if the Mormons (or Christians in general) are right? What if people abandoned worship of the old gods for a reason? What if there were convincing displays of power from El's early disciples? What if I honour the old gods because I'm still following the tendency to make bad choices in the face of the knowledge they're bad choices?

And on, and on, and on. There are even times where these fears bleed through into my current practises. Some days I'm not sure whether I honour the gods I do because I want to any more, or because I've said I will and I feel obligated (pressured, even) to honour those words; and that things will get very bad for me if I back out because the gods will be angry with me.

Fortunately I can take a step back, take a breath and a moment to calm my thoughts. Any god who inspires devotion in his/her followers through fear does not deserve the worship of free men, even if they get it. The old gods don't seem to care whether I worship them or not; I've not been struck by Thor because I used to say prayers to him then stopped.

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This is the decisive point for me as well. A religion that embraces the lower principles instead of the higher values and virtues can not lead to a higher state. It still stupefies me that Abrahamics describe their God as jealous, fearful and fear demanding, wrathful, discriminating, all-knowledgeable and all-powerful, egocentric (Love me and only me), megalomaniac , sadomasochistical.

Treks said:

G'day

As a teen exploring neo-Paganism in the late 1990's, it was impressed upon me by family members that my interest would attract 'bad energies' and cause bad things to happen to me, my home and my family members. When my mum got sick and taken to hospital when I was 14, she said it was because of my 'witchy' friends (I didn't have any 'witchy' friends and I was too nervous to do any sort of practice or prayer at all, anyway).

Now, even thought I'm 30, I still have trouble shaking this feeling when considering any type of Pagan path. At the moment I'm exploring Asatru and reading a little bit about Theodism.

Whilst part of me knows that Heathenry is the religion of my distant ancestors, and the lifestyle still perseveres among people today to some degree, I have this blockage of fear that if I actually get up off my armchair and *do* instead of just *read*, I'll trigger a cascade of terrible happenings, or, more likely, attribute every bad action which happens to anyone around me, to my Pagan actions.

I'm terrified that I'll do something simple, a small offering or some such, and then spend the next few weeks paranoid and looking out for any kind of trouble that I could have caused. I'm terrified that I'll end up with this lists of gods and beings I need to placate every night before I am able to sleep.

Surely some of you have had similar experiences (perhaps because you've transitioned out of Christianity) and I'd love to hear how you handled it. And any other advice is much appreciated.

Thanks
Treks

Click to expand...

All northern traditions ancestors came from the same place about 13000 y. ago. http://peshera.org/Pictures/Daaria_l.jpg one of the old rule - do not fear. your have to control your life. you born free and you will get what you want. fear is a weakness, do not avoid it, go face to face to your fear, get over it, and you will get your freedom back and support of your ancestors. remember - top honor - to die in fight for truth.