WHY Gnostics reject Jehovah is the true God, A Brief Overview

Darkness said:

Is it fair to consider gnosticism a coherent religion? Or is gnosticism more akin to a modern historical word of classification. I am not historian, but from I do know, it seems like the lines between Christianity and Gnosticism were blurred in the first couple centuries anno domini. Christianity did not become a coherent religion until the Council of Nicaea. Early gnostics appear to me as Christians who are more heavily influenced by Greek Philosophy and Platonism.

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Some scholars like Elaine Pagels do argue that the Gnostic sects should be accepted as a legitimate Christian sect. These Gnostic texts are the mystical texts of Christianity and yes they were heavily influenced by Neoplatonism.

'Gnostic' Texts vs. the New Testament--Elaine Pagels and Ben Witherington debate Gospel of Thomas Gnosticism - Beliefnet.com

Elaine Pagels and Ben Witherington III on Jesus and Paul--Scholarly Smackdown - Beliefnet.com

nazz said:

Also, strange as it may seem (strange due to the rejection of the Jewish deity), Gnosticism's true roots may lay in Judaism itself (rather than Greek philosophy). Or so suggests a book I recently read.

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Yes, it was Philo of Alexandria who harmonized the Jewish philosophy with the Hellenistic philosophy.

Philo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indeed, the early Gnostics originally stemmed from Jews and Jewish beliefs. Including the idea of "Wisdom" being the First independent personified being (Sophia). However, the association of the "Demiurge" as an evil, flawed being who was identified as the OT god I believe was a separate and later development, much like how gentile Christianity tried to separate itself from its Jewish roots, so did the later Gnostic sects try to distance themselves. But I think the evidence is clear that Gnosticism ORIGINALLY did NOT reject the OT Jewish god whatsoever. And as we see below, there's an undeniable connection between early Christian Jews and Gnosticism.

GNOSTICISM - JewishEncyclopedia.com

In fact, the very nature of Kabalah may have its roots in this early pre-Christian Jewish Gnosticism.

Jewish Gnosticism.
Jewish gnosticism unquestionably antedates Christianity, for Biblical exegesis had already reached an age of five hundred years by the first century C.E. Judaism had been in close contact with Babylonian-Persian ideas for at least that length of time, and for nearly as long a period with Hellenistic ideas. Magic, also, which, as will be shown further on, was a not unimportant part of the doctrines and manifestations of gnosticism, largely occupied Jewish thinkers. There is, in general, no circle of ideas to which elements of gnosticism have been traced, and with which the Jews were not acquainted. It is a noteworthy fact that heads of gnostic schools and founders of gnostic systems are designated as Jews by the Church Fathers. Some derive all heresies, including those of gnosticism, from Judaism (Hegesippus in Eusebius, "Hist. Eccl." iv. 22; comp. Harnack, "Dogmengesch." 3d ed. i. 232, note 1). It must furthermore be noted that Hebrew words and names of God provide the skeleton for several gnostic systems. Christians or Jews converted from paganism would have used as the foundation of their systems terms borrowed from the Greek or Syrian translations of the Bible. This fact proves at least that the principal elements of gnosticism were derived from Jewish speculation, while it does not preclude the possibility of new wine having been poured into old bottles.

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Now notice carefully, the early Gnostic teachers, according to Church Fathers like Iraneus....were Jews. Christian Jews to be exact. It seems that the dividing line between what we usually think of didn't occur until the Cainite and Sethian sects who were most likely (deviant) later developments of early Jewish gnosticism.

Pre-Christian.
Cosmogonic-theological speculations, philosophemes on God and the world, constitute the substance of gnosis. They are based on the first sections of Genesis and Ezekiel, for which there are in Jewish speculation two well-established and therefore old terms: "Ma'aseh Bere****" and "Ma'aseh Merkabah." Doubtless Ben Sira was thinking of these speculations when he uttered the warning: "Seek not things that are too hard for thee, and search not out things that are above thy strength. The things that have been commanded thee, think thereupon; for thou hast no need of the things that are secret" (Ecclus. [Sirach] iii. 21-22, R. V.). The terms here emphasized recur in the Talmud in the accounts of gnosis. "There is no doubt that a Jewish gnosticism existed before a Christian or a Judæo-Christian gnosticism. As may be seen even in the apocalypses, since the second century B.C. gnostic thought was bound up with Judaism, which had accepted Babylonian and Syrian doctrines; but the relation of this Jewish gnosticism to Christian gnosticism may, perhaps, no longer be explained "(Harnack," "Geschichte der Altchristlichen Litteratur," p. 144). The great age of Jewish gnosticism is further indicated by the authentic statement that Johanan b. Zakkai, who was born probably in the century before the common era, and was, according to Sukkah 28a, versed in that science, refers to an interdiction against "discussing the Creation before two pupils and the throne-chariot before one."

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Though I'm not sure at what point "magic" and "Sorcery" became intertwined, what cannot be ignored is that such Gnostic elements may have played a key role in shaping even Medieval Kaballic thought.

. It is also highly probable that a not inconsiderable part of the earliest Jewish gnosis is still extant, though in somewhat modified form, in the mystical small midrashim that have been collected in Jellinek's "Bet ha-Midrash," and in the medieval products of the Jewish Cabala. Although at present means are not at hand to distinguish the earlier from the later elements, it is undeniable that the devotees of secret science and magic in general can not be easily exterminated, though they may seem to disappear from time to time. Krochmal, and after him Joel, have already pointed out gnostic doctrines in the Zohar. Further investigation will show the relationship of gnosticism to the Cabala, as well as that of both to magic in general

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Many of the "Gnostic" literature pieces like Gospel of Philip are actually not at all out of line with Jewish Christian thought (unlike clearly Sethian works), but things like "The Exegesis of the Soul" clearly paint the earliest Gnostic movement as 100% pure Jewish, pro-OT God. In fact, the Gospel of Philip may even reference Torah obedience and Sabbath. But I'm not too sure about the idea that it says Jesus was God, perhaps Shiranui can expound on this "explicit Trinity" reference in GoP.

And one of the best proofs that early Christian Jews were indeed referred to as "Gnostics" is found in the Talmud, in a debate about Christianity between the Rabbis and Jacob of Sekanya, or "Jacob the Gnostic" who was identified as none other apparently none other than James the Just. I will have to consult a Talmud specialist for this reference though.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8410-jacob-the-gnostic

http://www.biblewiki.be/wiki/EXORCISM_(Jewish_Encyclopedia)

Jewish Christianity.

According to the statements in the Talmud, cures by exorcism were especially common in Judæo-Christian circles. Mention is several times made of a certain Jacob of Sekanya (see Jacob the Gnostic), who desired to cure in the name of Jesus one who had been bitten by a snake; R. Ishmael, however, would not permit it, preferring rather to let his sister's son die (Tosef., Ḥul. ii. 22). Origen says ("Contra Celsum," iii. 24) that he saw people cured of dangerous diseases—of possession, madness, and other ills—simply by calling on the names of God and Jesus, and that otherwise neither men nor demons could cure them. Christianity has preserved this belief up to the present day, for exorcism still forms a part of the rite of baptism (Herzog-Hauck, "Real-Encyc." v. 695-700; Hastings, "Dict. Bible," i. 811 et seq.; Winer, "B. R." i. 161-165; Acts xix. 13-16).

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And finally, this little bit from Epiphanius about James:

According to Epiphanius ("Hæres." lxxviii. 14), he wore a golden plate on his forehead (comp. Meg. iv. 8, where this is characterized as "the way of the Gnostics"

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Shermana said:

In fact, the Gospel of Philip may even reference Torah obedience and Sabbath. But I'm not too sure about the idea that it says Jesus was God, perhaps Shiranui can expound on this "explicit Trinity" reference in GoP.

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"Christ has each within him, whether human being or angel or mystery" (Gospel of Philip 56:14-15).

"Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing."
(Gospel of Philip)

"People cannot see anything in the real realm unless they become it...if you have seen the spirit, you have become the spirit; if you have seen Christ, you have become Christ; if you have seen the Father, you will become the Father" (Gospel of Philip 61:20-32 cf. 67:26-27)

My favourite verses.

Shermana said:

In fact, the Gospel of Philip may even reference Torah obedience and Sabbath. But I'm not too sure about the idea that it says Jesus was God, perhaps Shiranui can expound on this "explicit Trinity" reference in GoP.

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First off, I'd like to note that I have drawn many of the same conclusions as you in terms of the relationship between Judaism and Gnosticism, though I must admit I've only just begun studying the Gnostic Scriptures, so much of my knowledge is scant. Since you referenced it, I think I'll try reading the Exegesis of the Soul.

Anyway, the "explicit Trinity" reference comes from the Gospel of Philip 72:

The truth did not come unto the world naked, but rather it has come in symbolicº images. (The world) will not receive it in any other fashion. There is a rebirthº together with a reborn image. It is truly appropriate not to be reborn thru the image.¹ What is the resurrection with its image?—it is appropriate to arise thru the image.¹ The Bridal-Chamber with its image?—it is appropriate to come into the truth thru the image, which is this Restorationº. It is appropriate for those born not only of the words ‘the Father with the Son with the Sacred Spirit’, but (moreover) are begotten of them themselves. Whoever is not begotten of them, will have the name also taken from him.² Yet one receives them in the Chrism of the fullness in the power of the cross³, which the Apostles call: the right with the left.¹ª For this-one is no longer a Christic but rather a Christ.

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Not following the Law does not mean we get to come up with our own. When Mary Magdelene was freed of her Demons she did not go back to being a self abusive women. I think we suffer until we learn the truth, and then you must put it aside.

The post that made whole sense to me is from "millennium".

"...All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness" - 2 Timothy 3:16

This should be true even for Gnostic, Apocrypha, maybe even Book of Mormons.

TRUTH is TRUTH wherever it comes from.

How do we know which one is true, which one is a lie?

This scripture should help us.
"...This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God,and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." - John 17:3

"Knowing" someone starts by acknowledging their name but it doesn't stop there. Think of someone you love. How can you say that you "know" them? Is it merely because you know their name? Or is it because you know their character as a person, you know what makes them smile, you know what makes them cry?

Why is it important to "know" both the only true God and Jesus Christ?

Because really knowing them gives us the wisdom to see the truth from lies and as a result live in harmony in Jehovah God's entire creation and fulfil His original purpose to all creation, to exist Forever.

Personally, one example of a benefit in really "knowing" Jehovah God and Jesus Christ is that I can now love God not out of fear of punishment. "God is Love", with this in mind, we "know" that Jehovah nor Jesus would judge anyone no matter how wicked they are in a literal eternal suffering hellfire! That's just sadistic and not loving. If God loves people that obeys him, He can just simply make them not exist anymore to keep them from causing harm to creatures that are in harmony with God, out of love. No need for sadistic measures.

Eternal suffering in Hell is just one of many doctrines that stains the name of the true Loving, Just, and Wise God. And we all know who loves doing this task of lying and challenging Jehovah's sovereignty.

You can either believe that God is Love, or in eternal suffering in hellfire. You can't hold on to both.

I'd love to get your feedbacks. Peace be with you.

meek_one said:

The post that made whole sense to me is from "millennium".

"...All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness" - 2 Timothy 3:16

This should be true even for Gnostic, Apocrypha, maybe even Book of Mormons.

TRUTH is TRUTH wherever it comes from.

How do we know which one is true, which one is a lie?

This scripture should help us.
"...This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God,and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." - John 17:3

"Knowing" someone starts by acknowledging their name but it doesn't stop there. Think of someone you love. How can you say that you "know" them? Is it merely because you know their name? Or is it because you know their character as a person, you know what makes them smile, you know what makes them cry?

Why is it important to "know" both the only true God and Jesus Christ?

Because really knowing them gives us the wisdom to see the truth from lies and as a result live in harmony in Jehovah God's entire creation and fulfil His original purpose to all creation, to exist Forever.

Personally, one example of a benefit in really "knowing" Jehovah God and Jesus Christ is that I can now love God not out of fear of punishment. "God is Love", with this in mind, we "know" that Jehovah nor Jesus would judge anyone no matter how wicked they are in a literal eternal suffering hellfire! That's just sadistic and not loving. If God loves people that obeys him, He can just simply make them not exist anymore to keep them from causing harm to creatures that are in harmony with God, out of love. No need for sadistic measures.

Eternal suffering in Hell is just one of many doctrines that stains the name of the true Loving, Just, and Wise God. And we all know who loves doing this task of lying and challenging Jehovah's sovereignty.

You can either believe that God is Love, or in eternal suffering in hellfire. You can't hold on to both.

I'd love to get your feedbacks. Peace be with you.

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Millennium and meek one you both seem to be quoting directly from the draw close to Jehovah book. Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that the devil in fact may have created the dimensions of hell and until God resolves matters our soul could get trapped there?

I dropped the Hebrew scriptures from trying to define Christ. It profits nothing. To follow any path that blinded the Jews is not advisable. Once Christ came, the truth walked among us. Why return to the gray times angels as Stephen spoke of when they stoned him? Acts 7.

Jesus said Moses did not get his bread (knowledge) from heaven.

John 6:32
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Jesus said teach the Gospel, not the Bible.

ziggy2737 said:

True gnostics do not follow Christianity or the Bible. We do not believe in blood atonnent for sin.

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But the original Gnostics – those that has something to do with the "heretics" described by Irenaeus and other early anti-Gnostics, almost universally used the personage of the Old Testament and had a Christ-like Savior figure. That doesn't mean that they are true (such as true Scotsmen and such, blink, blink) only that they were the original ones.